Carry in Independence Hall

[granuale]

Okay so this month 1/09 I think is when carry in National Parks is authorized with restrictions. As Greg points out here that provision does not authorize carry inside any "federal facility". Here however, we see

The structures and properties in 22-acre Independence National Historical Park, most of which are open to the public, include those owned by the city of Philadelphia, but administered by the National Park Service. These consist of Independence Hall, Congress Hall, City Hall, and Independence Square.

So I'm wondering whether I can carry inside the Hall? Perhaps a letter signed by Dan on behalf of the Association directed to the Department of Justice is in order? My reading of the law as provided in Greg's post leads me to believe it is legal, but I'd sure like to see something official, both as some limited insurance against prosecution, as well as a hammer against Hall staff who would refuse admittance.

It has always pissed me off that I couldn't carry in the cradle of liberty. Hopefully this will change soon.

[gnbrotz]

Looks like you have found a technical loophole, but as you've recognized, one that is pretty much impossible to make use of.

I can't imagine that this ability would ever be recognized short of actually challenging it, being cited, and working up through the court system - and I think you recognize that that's not a path your anxious to take (me either!).

[mercop]

LEO's are not even covered under HR218 there. Only federal officers can carry there.

[tl_3237]

I've posted the full text of 18 USC §930 here:

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...ry-page-3.html post #21

Of particular note is the exception for 'lawful purpose'(d)(3), the definition of 'federal facility'(g)(1), and the signage requirement(h).

In addition to the above issues is whether 'administration' is the same as 'owned or leased' (g)(1).

It would be interesting to find out if those particular buildings have the prescribed signage citing them as Federal Facilities.

IANAL but there seems to be a lot of areas that could be raised that they are not Federal Facilities but, as Greg indicated, do you want to be the first to court? If there is no signage then you know you'll never be convicted of violation §930 but that doesn't mean you won't be charged.

Anyone out there been to Independence Mall lately? Was there any signage or weapon searches?

[kobold19446]

Just an FYI, City Hall in Philadelphia is also the courthouse for the Philadelphia Court of Common Pleas. You have to sign in and show ID to go into City Hall and just like any other courthouse, firearms are not permitted.

[gnbrotz]

Just an FYI, City Hall in Philadelphia is also the courthouse for the Philadelphia Court of Common Pleas. You have to sign in and show ID to go into City Hall and just like any other courthouse, firearms are not permitted.

This thread is about "Independence Hall", not City Hall.

[Bucks_Man]

I would say the Park Service would give you some line like "yeah, but not here" while they have you pinned to the wall or floor.

[kobold19446]

I was just adding an FYI...I noticed a reference to City Hall (see below) and it occurred to me that members may not know that there is a court of Common Pleas in Philadelphia's City Hall which is just up from Independence Hall (Broad and Market). That's all. I know, the reference below is to Old City Hall, but again, I was just adding some information.


"These consist of Independence Hall, Congress Hall, City Hall, and Independence Square"

[cock&lock]

I've posted the full text of 18 USC §930 here:

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...ry-page-3.html post #21

Of particular note is the exception for 'lawful purpose'(d)(3), the definition of 'federal facility'(g)(1), and the signage requirement(h).

In addition to the above issues is whether 'administration' is the same as 'owned or leased' (g)(1).

It would be interesting to find out if those particular buildings have the prescribed signage citing them as Federal Facilities.

IANAL but there seems to be a lot of areas that could be raised that they are not Federal Facilities but, as Greg indicated, do you want to be the first to court? If there is no signage then you know you'll never be convicted of violation §930 but that doesn't mean you won't be charged.

Anyone out there been to Independence Mall lately? Was there any signage or weapon searches?

What is the prescribed signage?

[tl_3237]

What is the prescribed signage?

18 USC §930(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

I would assume the signage is the same sign that has been posted in other threads that are in the post offices in addition to the postal CFR sign.