A Question For Parents (Who Own Firearms)

[Bruce]

:::WARNING::: Long Post

I’ve never fathered a child (AFAIK). However, I have *been* a child. There were no firearms in the house(s) I grew up in. However, I can clearly remember that there were plenty of dangerous/deadly implements and materials readily available to me as a small child.

I clearly recall often having unfettered access to the stove and the oven, extremely sharp knives, all sorts of sharp and heavy garden-type tools and implements, a hatchet, electrical wall outlets and plenty of extremely dangerous objects as well as ample poisonous materials. When I see news reports of the terrible occurrences where children are *accidentally* shot, the reporters tend to show the ‘stories’ while expressing the following simple, seemingly logical, equation: home plus children plus firearm equals dead children.

If introducing a dangerous object or mechanism, like a firearm for example, into a home where a child lives will guarantee that child’s death, then how the heck did *I* survive to adulthood? I clearly remember being no more than 5 or 6 years old and ‘exploring’ by myself in the garage and in the basement of my home; and in my grandparent‘s home as well. The idea of ‘child-proofing’ your house hadn’t become popular until long after I was an adult.

I remember the paint thinner, I remember the screw drivers, I remember all sorts of potentially lethal substances and devices - yet, somehow, I miraculously escaped certain death. Never once do I recall wanting to ‘play catch’ with my sister by throwing a pair of scissors at her. Never once did I consider ‘chugging’ a bottle of ammonia or bleach - even on a ‘double-dog-dare’. I never once wanted to find out just what would *really* happen if I stuck a fork into the electrical outlet in the wall. I never seriously thought to myself: “I wonder what would happen if I hit my sister on the head with a hammer like Bugs Bunny did to Elmer Fudd?”

I don’t know; perhaps I was an exceptionally intelligent kid? Um… Maybe I had real live angels watching over me?

More than likely, I was, as most children are, simply capable of understanding that knives are sharp and they can cut you - and being cut is ‘bad’; it makes boo-boos. I understood that eating or drinking poison was bad because it would hurt your ‘tummy‘ and make you sick. I could plainly see what the axe, or the chain saw, for that matter, could do to a piece of wood by watching my father and, obviously, I wouldn’t want to do *that* to myself, my sister or even my baby brother!

If I had grown up in a home with firearms, especially if both of my parent’s actively carried and/or shot (target/hunting) more than on very rare occasions, I would have probably regarded firearms the same way I did the lawn mower or the chain saw. At least one of my parents probably would have shown me (in a safe environment) exactly what a firearm can really do - and that would have been something that stuck in my memory for a lifetime.

Every time I read one of these tragic news stories about children who (from the way the stories are usually reported) have relatively easy, unfettered access to loaded firearms, I can’t help but wonder why on earth these children not only pick up and ‘play' with them but then aim these weapons at themselves or others and pull the trigger?!? I mean, WTF?? What the ever-lovin’-frack did their parents teach them??? Or: what did the parents *not* teach them, more than likely is the better question.

There was a ‘billboard campaign’ in Pennsylvania not too long ago where they depicted a ‘crayon-like child’s drawing’ with the basic message that ‘gun locks’ were the ‘answer’ to ‘accidental’ deaths of children when there were firearms in the home. As a former child, I can assure you that ‘locking something up’ or ‘hiding’ something ‘mysterious’ was, pretty much, a sure-fire way to get me to snoop around for it and find a way to get at it.

I just always seem to ‘feel’ (maybe, again, it is just because of the way the news stories are reported) that most of these ’tragic stories’ involve homes where the parents keep firearms - anything at all to do with firearms - completely hidden from their children; that these children knew absolutely nothing at all about ’guns’ other than what they’ve seen on television or in movies. I would easily believe that these poor children didn’t even know of the existence of any ‘real’ firearms in their homes - until the tragic moment they found it and pulled the trigger.

So... what's my question?

I know there are a number of pafoa members who are parents. I am curious how your children miraculously manage to not kill themselves, their siblings, you or their friends when (obviously) there are firearms in your homes? How do you guys (or, rather, your children) possibly manage to keep from being featured on these oh-so-popular tragic news stories?

For you ‘intelligent and responsible’ parents, I am betting that *not* “hiding” your firearms has something to do with the fact that your children have not shot anyone (or themselves) yet. I am also betting that teaching your kids about what firearms are, and, just as importantly, what they can do, also has something to do with the fact that your children are sans-bullet holes too. Please, correct me if I am wrong.
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[knight0334]

I'm not a blood parent, but I've had "stepkids" live with me.

Only with the ones younger than kindergarten age did I make my house "safe". Those older than that were taught, like myself and my brother, that they are dangerous and will kill even accidentally. If they want to see or handle them at anytime, all they had to do is ask. ..no questions asked as to why, just that they had to ask. Then should show proper care in checking it for load status even after watching me check it.

The curious discovery of guns leads to more injuries than those that know of them and are taught the rights and wrongs. You can hardly fault the kid either, guns are neat things.

My brother and myself, and all of my cousins, were raised with loaded guns sitting around. None of us even thought to touch them unless we asked permission or an emergency demanded such action. Dad's S&W 357 could be found in the seat cushions or on the kitchen counter any day of the week. His K22 could be found likewise. Loaded shotguns and rifles in corners, behind doors. ...and my house was, or is, the same.

Teeny and her son came to live with me when he was 14. He was taught right away, and never once broke the rule. Even though his mom wasn't so keen on them, she never gave me grief about it. David always asked me when he wanted to handle one. That trust grew when after I bought him a Mossberg 22 semi for plinking. He insisted that I keep keys to his chamber lock even when he turned 18 "just to be safe".

[rwilson452]

When i grew up there was an unloaded shotgun in the closet. Well I thought it was unloaded. Touching it was a hanging offense, so I didn't. When I developed and interest it it my father took me out and let me shoot it. It darn near knocked me on my butt. that ended that for many years. When i had my own kids they knew where it was an what it was. again touching was a top offense they never developed an interest and I didn't push it. Later my son joined the Army.

[PennsyPlinker]

I grew up in a house with guns. My children grew up in a house with guns. While they are mostly grown, it was not until last year that I actually bought a safe. I could write a book on this subject, but I will try to be brief.

You need a combination of discipline, attention, and true love for your children. Parents who are more interested in money, their job, or other things that interfere with the proper raising of children are going to turn out losers. You cannot give a child orders and then just walk away expecting that he or she will obey them. Even those of us who claim to have raised "good children" can't claim that. Children are undomesticated little monsters that need to be trained to be fit for society. They are greedy and selfish, and they need to have other values instilled in them from a very early age. Every time I see some kid in the news who just got arrested for murder, or robbery, or something similar, there is some idiot being quoted saying, "he was such a good boy".

No, he wasn't such a good boy. He probably had a long history of bad behavior leading up to the final act that ended his life or guaranteed his incarceration for most of what is left of it. He was a boy that for whatever reasons was ignored or abused (and ignoring a child is a form of abuse) by his parents, if in fact he had parents. May people today are self absorbed with all sorts of stuff - see the addiction thread for some of my opinions on that. Raising kids properly is a lot of work, and too many people know how to have them without wanting to put in the time to raise them.

And in the end, none of the above guarantees that a kid will turn out well. But if he or she never gets the chance, the result is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

[JoeWilliams]

My loaded handgun is not locked, and my 9 y/o knows where it's at.

Our other guns aren't locked either, and the boy knows where they are at.

Education, discipline, supervision, and frankly the fear of losing all his guns if he ever touches a firearm without permission helps keep him in line.

Won't work with all kids, since not all respond well to such, nor are capable of exercising self-discipline. My boy has his moments, but when it comes to guns (which he's been around all his life and shooting since five) he's been utterly dependable. Part of this may well be due to the fact that guns are no mystery whatsoever to him.

[JeannieBmine]

I grew up with guns around. My dad carried some kind of pistol while we were living in NY. He also carried knives (one on his belt and one under his pant leg). When the family moved up to PA. when I was 16, he got more into hunting. I think he always hunted but I never remember guns being out in the open growing up in NY. Anyway, when we moved up to Pa. he had several locked gun cabinets where his rifles and pistols were kept. Nowadays, he does keep a loaded rifle by the back door just in case. No one touches, it unless you want your @## kicked in. That, basically, was the way my father was while we were growing up. You never touched anything of his unless you asked permission.

We did get into trouble growing up. I remember my brother stabbing me with a pair of scissors. But we learned from the experience. We also learned that if something bad happened, we were probably doing something we shouldn't have been doing and we thought twice about doing it. Most likely because if my dad found out, we would get into more trouble. I guess I owe a lot to my parents. I wish I was stricter with my kids. I think they would have more respect today.

[1861]

I was around loaded firearms from the day I was born in 1946 . When my 1st boy was born in 1969 there was a loaded shotgun in the room we all slept in . When my boys were 1 year and the other was 2 months old I started police work . Six years later my daughter came along and they were all around loaded pistols , rifles & shotguns from then on . I started them shooting when they were about six and neither of them have ever had a firearm related accident or intentionally shot when or what they shouldn,t

[cdarney]

I have 3 children 22, 21 and 18. When they were old enough to understand (older than 5 or 6), all three were shown what guns were, how they worked and, when they got a little older, how to shoot them. Prior to that they were stowed high with trigger locks. Guns were never a "big deal" with them and they knew to LEAVE THEM ALONE if I wasn't with them. Of the three only the youngest has maintained any interest and I trust him to handle and shoot them properly.

My handguns are locked in a small safe by the bed which is unlocked at night. This is done more for safe keeping from prying visitors...and my wife...who I really don't trust to handle them. She's never taken any interest in learning and I don't want her handling them until she does.

If company comes (especially with children) all of the guns are locked because I don't know their level of familiarity.

I think it's very important to teach the children early on about guns and how dangerous they can be. Once the novelty is gone the chance of accidents drops. Maybe they should have mandatory gun handling training in primary schools.

[TaePo]

I was strict with my children from day one. (Of course, I made it age appropriate)

I also made allowance to slowly reduce restrictions as they got older and matured with more responsibility. But there were still penalties. And some of my rules were explained as safety reasons when they were older so they understood.

I was the one who could still do a special ops strike on a store. In, find what I want or look at it and the price and boom, outta there. Even with both my kids.

My wife could never do that. They always asked for something. She eventually gave in. They learned from her not to take no for an answer, keep hammering away.

But not me. Sometimes they would still ask, I would say no. That was the end of it. Usually, they did not even bother asking. After several trips, though, I might get ice cream or something as a treat.

My son's in college now, doing well and my daughter is 13. So far, we haven't tangled horns in the teen years...yet.

I remember telling my kids not to touch outlets when they were young. They never did (that I saw).

They also know that our master bedroom is off-limits to all unless they are invited in or asked to get something from inside by my wife or I. When they showed interest, I taught them a little about firearms beyond not touching them!

So far, I have been blessed. Now, if their personality had been that they would touch it anyway, I would have locked all of my firearms and dangerous substances away.

At times I was concerned I was being too strict, but I figure, as long as I was fair, when they grew up, they would realize my motives, especially when they become parents.

Personally, I think too many are either too busy or too permissive with their children. You cannot really be your child's friend. At least not until they start their own families.

Just my 2 cents.

[phill]

My two girls were raised with guns in the house. They were told that anytime that they wanted to try a gun just say so. Not something kept away with a mystery attached. Worked for us with kids and grandkids so far.