Less Than Lethal vs. Buck Shot and Slug

[dmcdonnell]

Guys/Gals,

I am well aware of the stopping power of 00 buck shot, and Slugs in my 12 guage, but lately I have been considering some more specialized stuff like the Less Than Lethal offerings from ALS Technologies, http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemL...spx?catid=1866

Also I found some really exotic stuff on this website as well..
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...specialty-ammo

like double slug and mixed slug/pellet/shot/bb ammo..

My gut tells me to stay with the tried and true 00 buck and Slug option for stopping power and lighter ammo for practice..

What are some of your opinions...?

Dave

[TonyF]

Follow your instincts (e.g. gut).

Less than lethal ammo is not necessarily less lethal and requires a training to employ it effectively. Also, IMO it is an ambiguous employment of "force" because it can in fact result in death and thus raises all manner of legal questions and ramifications.

[God's Country]

I'd stick with your gut....the buckshot anyway

Unless you have some circumstance that begs the use of less than lethal, or birdshot any of the available buckshot loads would be and are my choice.

IMO less than lethal is less than effective. Remember we don’t have the discretionary use of force that LE does. We can’t disperse an angry mob outside our home with rubber bullets or beanbag loads. The only realistic need to use force in your home is the reasonable belief of imminent danger, which to me means deadly force. IMO in that type of a situation I won’t have time to decide whether it’s pepper spray, or some other non lethal means of force. The truth is I’ll be lucky to escape with no harm with only seconds to respond. Buckshot for me.

[Pa. Patriot]

Follow your instincts (e.g. gut).

Less than lethal ammo is not necessarily less lethal and requires a training to employ it effectively. Also, IMO it is an ambiguous employment of "force" because it can in fact result in death and thus raises all manner of legal questions and ramifications.

Ditto.
LTL has essentially no use in non LEO/Mil applications.

On top of the reasons Tony listed, using LTL in the wrong scenario is more likely to have similar result as poking a lion with a stick than helping anything.

If you're not justified in shooting, retreat until the threat is gone or becomes justified in shooting. Keep it simple.

[Farbmeister]

Problem with 'less than lethal' BS is that at the range it IS accurate, it is also still very lethal. At the range it is not truly lethal, the accuracy is abysmal.

We used to train with 12Ga bean bag rounds and at 20 feet you could miss a paper target easy. A hit was anywhere on the paper, not center or mass.

If you are going to point a loaded gun at someone... you better be ready to kill. Otherwise you are not a the legal definition of use of deadly force.

[dmcdonnell]

Thanks guys, I figured as much, and I also knew that the folks on here would be the best ones to run it by..

I figured birdshot or equivalent less expensive loads would be good for training, and target, and buckshot woudl be a good stopping round, I think the slugs are overkill, unless i want to stop a buick.. I recently watched the old 1985 video by Alex Jason showing the fifferent ballistic performance of various rounds from .22 to .50 cal (that video was eye opening to say the least)

Thanks for the wisdom..

Dave