Superposed loading and accuracy

[Sigvatr]

Hi there,

I'm the lead designer of a small computer game company (http://thd.vg) and we are currently working on a game that features a large variety of fictional firearms. I'm trying to tie in real technical issues in with the gameplay, so I was wondering if people with some firearm expertise would be interested in helping me with a few things.

We are including some weapons in the game that make use of superposed load technology, which some of you may recognize as the specialty of Metal Storm (who are based in my home town of Brisbane).

I've been getting a few different opinions on whether or not the length of a barrel will have an effect on a gun's accuracy. Assuming that they do, do you think that the position of a superposed loaded round within the weapon would have an effect on that round's accuracy?

I'm asking this because, if I am correct about this, the first round fired from a superposed loaded firearm would be very slightly less accurate than the last round fired (even if fired in single shots and zero'd in between shots).

Even if the effect is barely noticeable, I would like to put it in the game.

Can anyone verify this?

[Ten*K]

its more about the number of rounds than the accuracy of just one, but with computerized auto targeting in a futuristic weapon, who knows?

if the barrel is at a minimum long enough to stabilize the round (pistol length), then that would be fine. the last few shots could be a bit more powerful if the overall distance is enough to increase muzzle velocity.

the biggest part about those rounds is that they have no casing to eject, and there is no need for the common cycle of operations since the rounds are electrically fired. recoil would be unfriendly...

[Sigvatr]

So what you are saying is that to compensate for the difference in barrel length, the last few rounds in the "magazine" (I don't know what you would call it in this case, a stick?) would need a stronger charge to be able to escape the barrel and provide the same amount of impact force as the first rounds?

[rwilson452]

It really depends on the propellant charge and what the optimum barrel length is. A rifle round would tend to increase in velocity the further the round traveled down the barrel. this would cause the point of impact to rise. with a pistol charge would do the same until the optimum barrel length was reached then the round would start to decrease in velocity. Unless you were shooting at targets over 200M I don't think you would notice.

its more about the number of rounds than the accuracy of just one, but with computerized auto targeting in a futuristic weapon, who knows?

if the barrel is at a minimum long enough to stabilize the round (pistol length), then that would be fine. the last few shots could be a bit more powerful if the overall distance is enough to increase muzzle velocity.

the biggest part about those rounds is that they have no casing to eject, and there is no need for the common cycle of operations since the rounds are electrically fired. recoil would be unfriendly...

[Sigvatr]

Oh, I see. This was probably from my lack of understanding of firearms. So the longer a barrel is, the more time the propellant has to accelerate the bullet?

In our game, electromagnetic pulses are used as a weapon, and they are able to temporarily disable a weapon like this. I've read that superposed loaded weapons without electrical components exist but are rife with problems. Assuming that I have a superposed loaded firearm with electronic components, what advantages do these give other than the increased rate of fire?

[rwilson452]

I'm not sure I understand the question. Explain what you mean by " a superposed loaded firearm with electronic components".

Oh, I see. This was probably from my lack of understanding of firearms. So the longer a barrel is, the more time the propellant has to accelerate the bullet?

In our game, electromagnetic pulses are used as a weapon, and they are able to temporarily disable a weapon like this. I've read that superposed loaded weapons without electrical components exist but are rife with problems. Assuming that I have a superposed loaded firearm with electronic components, what advantages do these give other than the increased rate of fire?

[Sigvatr]

Basically Metal Storm's design for firearms. I'm probably trying to explain it from a gameplay perspective though, whereas a piece of equipment that requires electricity/electronics to operate is vulnerable to being EMPed.

In game, any equipment with electronic components is at a disadvantage because of the threat of electromagnetic pulses. Since we are trying to balance all of the equipment and weaponry in game (ie, they all have differences but there are not necessarily "better than others"), a piece of equipment with electronic components (in this case a weapon modeled on Metal Storm's firearm design) will probably have some kind of advantage or unique ability to compensate for its vulnerability to EMPs, hence balancing it with other weapons.

I'm wonder if I can translate real world gun concepts into gameplay elements as described above.

[rwilson452]

It is my understanding that the metal storm is electronically fired. the only thing you can do to prevent EMP damage is better shielding. shielding requires more mass so it gets heavier. Rate of fire is the principle of devices like metal storm. they are not a sniper type of arm not all that accurate. Note a strong enough EMP and even a unit that is powered down will get fried.

Basically Metal Storm's design for firearms. I'm probably trying to explain it from a gameplay perspective though, whereas a piece of equipment that requires electricity/electronics to operate is vulnerable to being EMPed.

In game, any equipment with electronic components is at a disadvantage because of the threat of electromagnetic pulses. Since we are trying to balance all of the equipment and weaponry in game (ie, they all have differences but there are not necessarily "better than others"), a piece of equipment with electronic components (in this case a weapon modeled on Metal Storm's firearm design) will probably have some kind of advantage or unique ability to compensate for its vulnerability to EMPs, hence balancing it with other weapons.

I'm wonder if I can translate real world gun concepts into gameplay elements as described above.

[justashooter]

metal storm and similar weps are designed to rain a hail of projectiles in a short period of time to effectively "shread" an imposing risk element. metal storm would be appropriate at an embassy gate, or a vehicle checkpoint on a roadway. it's primary utility is to stop a vehicle with minimal collateral damage, but used at extreme range against a mass of persons...

as for accuracy, this wep is not designed for such. imagine a bundle of barrels with multiple charges all going off at once. recoil and motion of the gun would be fairly constant if the rate of fire is high enough (and it is in practical application), but the dispersion of rounds caused by divergence of barrels from true alignment and the harmonic dampening effect variation (subject to many factors) will throw your lead all over a pie plate at 100 meters.

superposed loadings in a single barreled gun are another matter. accuracy would remain very similar between shots, assuming the temperature of the barrel remained within reasonable limits. that is to say, that accuracy would be good for the first several shots in rapid aimed fire, but would be horrible after a few dozen shots in streaming fire.

superposed loadings go all the way back to the days of flint and lock, and were only novelties, then. today they are horrifyingly real, though seldom employed.

[Hawk]

Balance it by giving it limited range and/or accuracy, or long reload times, or limited ammo. I could see it as a close range weapon, one shot one kill, sort of like a medium range shotgun in FPS, but capable of taking out closely spaced multiple targets.