Allegheny County Sheriff office - Wrong/Incorrect info ?

[johnnyquest]

Hi everyone, I've been meaning to post this for a while, but was waiting until I could get my hands on a scanner so you can see what I'm talking about.

I recently got my LTCF here in Allegheny County, went pretty smoothly, much easier than I thought it would be actually.

While I was waiting at the courthouse for my turn to actually pick up my license, I noticed they had a stack of pamphlets, so I grabbed one to check out later.

It's titled "A message to gun owners", about 6 pages long, has most of the basic safety info, general gun handling practices etc, pretty good stuff.

But then on the last page, titled "Prohibited areas to carry & concealment of firearms", there are two things that concern me.

First is this statement near the top:

"Firearms must be concealed on your person and not be visible to the general public".

Now on this one, I suppose you could make the argument that they are talking in terms of CC only, however the pamphlet isn't specifically for CC, and what bothers me is the inference that OC is not allowed, which we all know isn't true.

Item # 2 bothers me even more, most of the rest of this page is a reciprocity map, and it has several states listed incorrectly.

Specifically, as compared to multiple maps I have looked at online, including the one on this site (http://www.pafoa.org/resources/pafoa...rocity_map.gif) the states that seem wrong to me are:

Vermont
West Virginia
Virginia
Arkansas
Louisiana
North Dakota
Colorado
Arizona
Oklahoma

Below is a scan of the page I am referring to. I guess mainly I'm just wondering what y'alls thoughts are about this. Do you think it would do any good to write them a polite letter informing them that they are handing out incorrect info ?

I guess the map part really bothers me, because you would think if anyone would know the actual LAWS regarding carrying weapons, it would be the sheriff's office.

I think most, if not all, of the incorrectly listed states are states that DO honor PA permits, so at least it's not the other way around, but still, geesh !

Anyhow, just wanted to get that off of my chest, if anyone has any thoughts please feel free to share. Thanks !

Note - on the scan, it may be hard to see the legend, but basically it is:

Blue = "States with which PA has existing firearm reciprocity agreement"

Red = "States which recognize PA permit holders without reciprocity agreement"

Green = "States which do not have an agreement with PA"

Also the map is dated November 2006, so I don't know when/if any of these may have changed to what they are now.

(Scan below)

[archangel689]

http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...enySheriff.JPG


After this response, there really isn't an excuse for anything suggesting open carry is not legal. I'm sure others will respond, but i think we should demand the removal of these flyers.

[Ed in PA]

I'll call down there later today and try to get it straightened out. The ones that I've had answer their phone when I called actually knew about firearms and the courthouse. I'm hoping that it will be the same for this.

I'd hate to have this pamphlet omit important information.

I'll post my findings when I can.

[nflesher87]

this is certainly disturbing! Let me know if I can be of any help, I'll be stopping in there anyway at some point next week

[Philadelphia]

Concealed at all times, huh? Police top brass have got to learn that the law isn't what they wish it to be; the law is what it is.

In my mind, this is no different than the police kicking in doors at random because the chief of some township dept. doesn't think the 4th Amendment is a good idea.

Those who refuse to obey the law as written come in many forms. Some do it behind a badge. This brochure is an indication of one of them.

[archangel689]

keep in mind however this is Sheriff Bill Mullen who supposedly is a good guy.... what the hell is up with this flyer? There are a few folks in the Sheriff's Reserve on this forum

[HiredGoon]

Maybe those handouts are "leftover" from the previous administration, hence the outdated info?

[headcase]

Aside from working on the removal of this flier, the OP should be aware that there is no legal distinction between CC and OC if you have a LTCF. In other words, there is no set of rules that apply to one method or the other. You can conceal, partial conceal, half conceal, have it hanging out, carry openly in a holster, wear it on a neck lanyard, legally, as long as you're not carrying it in your hand in a threatening manner, it shouldn't make a difference. The sheriff or whoever wrote that flier, has no authority to regulate how you choose to carry with a LTCF. Only the state leg. gets to do that.....

[LittleRedToyota]

Maybe those handouts are "leftover" from the previous administration, hence the outdated info?

no. under the previous administration (defazio), they issued LTCFs on the spot and did not give out any flyer or other information with them. the LTCFs also did not incorrectly state that you cannot carry in airports (including unsecured areas of airports) on the back of them.

i don't really know mullen or much about him, but purely from the standpoint of LTCF issuance, he is not a good guy. he has needlessly made the process take longer/be more of a hassle, and he (or his subordinates...for whom he is responsible) is giving out incorrect information under the color of authority. the latter is not a trivial issue.

[johnnyquest]

Hey guys, thanks for all of the replies.

I did want to clarify, these were just sort of sitting in a stack near the door, on a small table I think. They weren't making you take one etc, just there if you wanted to grab one etc.

Not that it really changes anything, just wanted to make sure no one thought that I meant I was "forced" to take one, or handed one with my LTCF etc.

Thanks again, I love this site