About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA

[VeritasAequitas]

There's no reason to burn an FFL that did a transfer for you, by not helping them to fix paperwork errors of the sort that get FFL's in trouble.

There's no downside to getting your name associated with that gun in the Record of Sale Database (unless PA goes to full gun confiscation, which is unlikely), and there are some excellent reasons for getting it in there.

As to whether the gun is "legal", it's only contraband if you committed a crime, it's stolen, or the transfer itself was unlawful. But plenty of cops think that any blip in what they expect is grounds for seizure, so avoiding that hassle has value.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Great post. I have no intention of burning the FFL, even though I did find their voicemails somewhat rude. The shop is not exactly down the road from me, but I do plan on making it back there to fix their error as soon as possible.

[GunLawyer001]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Great post. I have no intention of burning the FFL, even though I did find their voicemails somewhat rude. The shop is not exactly down the road from me, but I do plan on making it back there to fix their error as soon as possible.

You can also suggest to whoever made the mistake, that they are free to swing by your place for you to fix it.

[Whiskey Reb]

Hi, I have a guy that wishes to purchase a handgun from me, but he does not have a valid drivers license. From the Butler County Sheriff's site, I discerned that either a valid photo Id or a state issued photo Id will suffice.

What types of photo Id's are recognized if not a state issued photo Id from the dept of transportation? Will a passport suffice?

Also, for practical purposes, is a dealer going to want to hassle with the added scrutiny of anything that is not a valid drivers license? A local dealer told me he doesn't want to do it unless there is a current valid drivers license.

Thanks

[NuclearSociety]

Hi, I have a guy that wishes to purchase a handgun from me, but he does not have a valid drivers license. From the Butler County Sheriff's site, I discerned that either a valid photo Id or a state issued photo Id will suffice.

What types of photo Id's are recognized if not a state issued photo Id from the dept of transportation? Will a passport suffice?

Also, for practical purposes, is a dealer going to want to hassle with the added scrutiny of anything that is not a valid drivers license? A local dealer told me he doesn't want to do it unless there is a current valid drivers license.

Thanks

The guy should be able to at least produce a valid state id if not a drivers license. If you feel ok with the transfer do it with either that ffl or another. I personally would not do the transfer if I want not comfortable with it, if the ffl is not and you are find another. Handguns have to go through ffl in PA.

[Whiskey Reb]

Yeah, I know the guy and he has a valid reason not to have a PA drivers license. He has a passport, but not a current PA approved ID card. Mainly I'm trying to discern whether or not he needs to go get a regular state ID, or whether his passport will do. Actually, I've only ever purchased handguns before, but never sold any, so this is new territory for me. Thanks for the reply.

[oneoclock]

This is a very interesting thread, about the lack of gun registration in PA.

First of all, just because a database is not complete does not mean it is not a registry.

I agree that if there are ways to obtain or own a gun without a requirement to update that database, then technically "all gun registration" is not required. But if the transfer of some guns is recorded and the database is updated, then "some gun registration" is taking place.

So, the record goes to the Sheriff and then the PSP and theoretically goes away after 72 hours? I'd be willing to bet my Township Police know of the gun I bought in July 2011. Just a hunch.

[knight0334]

This is a very interesting thread, about the lack of gun registration in PA.

First of all, just because a database is not complete does not mean it is not a registry.

I agree that if there are ways to obtain or own a gun without a requirement to update that database, then technically "all gun registration" is not required. But if the transfer of some guns is recorded and the database is updated, then "some gun registration" is taking place.

So, the record goes to the Sheriff and then the PSP and theoretically goes away after 72 hours? I'd be willing to bet my Township Police know of the gun I bought in July 2011. Just a hunch.

The courts have ruled PA's "database" to not be a registry. However it is used as one.

After the PSP enters the final data of the record of transfer into the database - it stays there until flushed out with the next transfer of that specific gun. Your local PA wouldn't know about your gun unless they looked you or your gun up specifically.

[James628]

This is a very interesting thread, about the lack of gun registration in PA.

First of all, just because a database is not complete does not mean it is not a registry.

I agree that if there are ways to obtain or own a gun without a requirement to update that database, then technically "all gun registration" is not required. But if the transfer of some guns is recorded and the database is updated, then "some gun registration" is taking place.

So, the record goes to the Sheriff and then the PSP and theoretically goes away after 72 hours? I'd be willing to bet my Township Police know of the gun I bought in July 2011. Just a hunch.

I've read somewhere, recently, that the sales record is kept for 20 years. How valid this is, I do not know. So I'm looking for some answers to that here. I'm perceiving this as: the last transferee is the current record of sale and this info remains available for 20 years. If this sounds silly please let me know. Or if there is some validity to this, but it has been mixed up before I read about it, please let me know that too.

From the history I've read, PSP is allowed to keep this "record of sale" because it is not a "complete" record. People moving into PA from other states are not required to to any transfer or sale paperwork for their guns they are bringing with them. Therefore, not all guns legally in PA have a "record of sale" related to them in PA. But it is very likely that they have a "record of sale" related to them in some other state. I'd easily believe that these databases from state to state are accessible by the state police. Therefore, the union of these databases equals one large database of "record of sales".

I'm interested in any advice, comments, education, etc on this point of view.

[abner13]

Back in the old days when ya filled out a 3-page carbon copy Application for Purchase and Record of Sale papers , with 3-5 day waiting period , many shops were rather lax on sending the paperwork in. I know , I worked for such a gunshop.
Plus , no doubt , many simply got lost in the mail.

[Suburban]

I want to run this by you guys.

I have, in my possession, my father's firearms. I want my sister in Delaware to have a couple of the pistols. I have a feeling that I'm not going to like the answer, but do we need to go to a FFL to do transfers?

The guns going to me was a black and white deal. The guns stayed in the same state, and was a parent-to-child inheritance. This is a little more grey area.