⚖️ Clubs’ lawsuit against Pennsylvania Game Commission in Pa. Supreme Court

[GOYABEAN]

🍿The high court heard arguments April 9 in a suit filed in 2021 by the Punxsutawney Hunting Club and the Pitch Pine Hunting Club, asserting that the commission and game warden Mark Gritzer repeatedly violated their private property rights with warrantless searches.

https://www.outdoornews.com/2025/04/...supreme-court/

[P89]

There's been a little secret for some time now that the Game Commission doesn't need a warrant if they SUSPECT violation of game laws.
I hope the outcome is favorable but I won't hold my breath.

PAGC needs to be DOGED. Maybe then I'll hunt PA again.

[akley88]

i dont get why PGC gets a pass for warrants on private property. if they suspect violations of game laws they should need a warrant like any other law enforcement agency.

[JenniferG]

i dont get why PGC gets a pass for warrants on private property. if they suspect violations of game laws they should need a warrant like any other law enforcement agency.

They do need a warrant and need to be held to account.

[P89]

They do need a warrant and need to be held to account.

Gunlaywer & I had this conversation many moons ago, but a solid case to argue it has never been brought to fruition...until recently.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitu...ields-doctrine

§ 901. Powers and duties of enforcement officers.

(a) Powers.--Any officer whose duty it is to enforce this title or any officer investigating any alleged violation of this title shall have the power and duty to:

(1) Enforce all laws of this Commonwealth relating to game or wildlife and arrest any person who has violated any of the provisions of this title while in pursuit of that person immediately following the violation.

(2) Go upon any land or water outside of buildings, except curtilage, posted or otherwise, in the performance of the officer's duty.

(3) Serve subpoenas issued under the provisions of this title or any other statute the officer is authorized to enforce.

(4) Carry firearms or other weapons, concealed or otherwise, in the performance of the officer's duties.

(5) Purchase and resell game or wildlife, or any part thereof, for the purpose of securing evidence.

(6) Stop any means of transportation within this Commonwealth under reasonable suspicion or under the administrative procedures for road checkpoints. Any officer who stops any means of transportation shall be in uniform and present a badge or other means of official identification and state the purpose of the stop.

(7) Search any person or means of transportation or its attachment or occupants, or any clothing worn by any person, or any bag, clothing or container under probable cause, consent, exigent circumstances or other established exceptions to warrant requirements, provided that if any person is present the officer presents a badge or other means of official identification and states the purpose of the search.

(8) Conduct administrative inspections of persons, licenses and permits, firearms, ammunition and other implements of taking, game bags, game, meat poles, tags, clothing, waterfowl blinds, decoys, tree stands, immediate hunting locations, or any means of transportation or its attachments used as blinds or as hunting locations, and any coolers or containers possessed at a hunting location when prima facie evidence of hunting exists. Any officer conducting an administrative inspection shall, if any person is present, present a badge or other means of official identification and state the purpose of the inspection.

(9) Secure and execute all warrants and search warrants for violations of this title or, with proper consent, to search or enter any building, dwelling, house, tavern, hotel, boardinghouse, enclosure, vehicle or craft or any attachments thereto, to open, by whatever means necessary, any door, compartment, chest, locker, box, trunk, bag, basket, package or container and to examine the contents thereof and seize any evidence or contraband found therein.

(10) When making an arrest or an investigation or when found in the execution of a search warrant, seize and take possession of all game or wildlife or parts of game or wildlife which have been taken, caught, killed, had or held in possession, and seize all firearms, shooting or hunting paraphernalia, vehicles, boats, conveyances, traps, dogs, decoys, automotive equipment, records, papers, permits, licenses and all contraband or any unlawful device, implement or other appliance used in violation of any of the laws relating to game or wildlife.

(11) Administer any oaths required by the provisions of this title or relative to any violation of any law relating to game or wildlife and, where game or wildlife is found in a camp or in possession or under control of any individual or hunting party, question the person or persons, under oath, relative to the taking, ownership or possession of the game or wildlife.

(12) Operate or move any vehicle, permanently or temporarily equipped with a type of flashing or rotating red light or lights or audible device or both, approved by the commission, upon any street or highway within this Commonwealth when performing duties within the scope of employment.

(12.1) Operate any vehicle owned or leased by the Commonwealth and used for law enforcement purposes, equipped with flashing or rotating lights of such color and combination and audible devices as authorized in the definition of "emergency vehicle" in 75 Pa.C.S. § 102 (relating to definitions) and approved by the commission, upon any street or highway within this Commonwealth when performing duties within the scope of employment. Drivers of Commonwealth-owned or Commonwealth-leased vehicles equipped with lights and audible devices as authorized in this subchapter may exercise the privileges and shall be subject to the conditions as set forth in 75 Pa.C.S. § 3105 (relating to drivers of emergency vehicles).

(13) Demand and secure assistance when the officer deems it necessary.

(14) Demand and secure identification from any person who is the subject of an official investigation or investigative detention, supported by reasonable suspicion, if the officer presents a badge or other means of official identification.

(15) Enforce all the laws of this Commonwealth and regulations promulgated thereunder relating to fish, boats, parks and forestry and other environmental matters, under the direction of those agencies charged with the administration of these laws.

(16) Require the holder of any license or permit required by this title or by commission regulation to sign the holder's name on a separate piece of paper in the presence of the requesting officer.

(17) When acting within the scope of the officer's employment, pursue, apprehend or arrest any individual suspected of violating any provision of Title 18 (relating to crimes and offenses) or any other offense classified as a misdemeanor or felony. The officer shall also have the power to serve and execute warrants issued by the proper authorities for offenses referred to in this paragraph and to serve subpoenas issued for examination. All powers as provided for in this paragraph will be limited by such administrative procedure as the director, with the approval of the commission, shall prescribe. The regulations shall be promulgated within 90 days of the effective date of this paragraph.

(18) When acting within the scope of the officer's employment and under the procedures outlined by the executive director, to use a facsimile in the enforcement of the provisions of this title and the regulations promulgated hereunder.

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/L.../HTM/34/34.HTM

[ar15jules]

Not any "mightier" than a police officer...

[esh21167]

Not any "mightier" than a police officer...

Not sure 'how' you meant your comment, but yes. I guess if the PGC has 'probable cause,' but that gets dicey, because once they think that, a fishing expedition ensues.

[JenniferG]

Gunlaywer & I had this conversation many moons ago, but a solid case to argue it has never been brought to fruition...until recently.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitu...ields-doctrine



https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/L.../HTM/34/34.HTM

Tennessee resolved the issue about game officials thinking they are above the Constitution

In Tennessee, state game wardens cannot enter private property without a warrant, according to a ruling by the state's Court of Appeals in 2024. This decision restricts the long-standing practice of wildlife officers conducting warrantless searches, which were previously considered constitutional under the Open Fields Doctrine in some states. The court's opinion emphasized that these searches are comparable to the arbitrary searches conducted by British customs officials before the Revolutionary War, which informed the establishment of the U.S. Constitution's protections against unreasonable searches and seizures.

[Big Kahuna 19547]

I honestly don't know how they will rule, but the one aspect that I found really egregious was the placement of cameras on the property. There should be no way that wardens can use technology such as cameras or even drones on private property without an affidavit and warrant. If they want to sit in the woods and watch under the open fields doctrine? At least they are physically putting forth the effort. I hope the Supremes follow Tennessee in their ruling, but I don't think that they have the testicular fortitude to do it.

[cdi]

I don't have much faith in the sc. It's pretty clear to me that the fish cops should be bound by the same search and seizure laws as every other le agency.
As a general rule the pcg cops are dumb as a stump and poorly trained.