Question on Transfer of Handgun

[unclesallie]

Dear All:

1. I'm an attorney, but firearms are way out of my "wheelhouse". I'm expatriating to SE Asia in February, so made a gift of my Walther PPQ to my son, who happens to be a licensed physician(so we cannot risk any legal issues with
firearms). Now, I am reading, that while Pa. transfers of "father to son" are exempt from registration, the best way to do this, is to register the transfer with DOJ/ATF, so if he's ever stopped by Law Enforcement, the transfer will pop
up on their computer screens. Feedback is sought...what is the best way to do this? Nothing or register the transfer through a Federal Firearms Licensee(Dealer).

2. Comment: I will be living in Bangkok, but have a home in Southern Philippines(a/k/a "the Phils"). Will be traveling back and forth from time to time.
I wes to go shooting with my Filipino Brother-in-Law who is a retired Philippine Scout(roughly equivalent to a "green beret"), and when he picked me up at 6:30 a.m. for a trip to a "resort" in the jungle, I was unrepared
for the entire family to go with us. Even the young 20 year old women. I was informed that the "young women" had been shooting since age 10. So, the new adage, "the Filipino Family that Shoots Together, Stays Together."
Lovely time was had by all. Ran into a shooting team from the military, and they asked all kinds of questions about the USA. They all love the USA there. Hmmm, wonder what they would say if they came here and actually
saw the high tech/crowded/impersonal crowding of 2025 America(?).

Any help on 1., above, appreciated!

Best,
Unclesallie

[Curmudgeon]

I hate to say this, but your #1 is correct. As long as the recipient is your son/grandson, a PA resident, and not prohibited from owning/possessing, your first scenario is legal.
For him to have a record of the piece belonging to him could very well be the "best" way in the right/wrong circumstances.

EDIT: If your son is not a PA resident you will have to complete a transfer at an FFL in HIS state of residence.

[JoshIronshaft]

If your son is a PA resident and not prohibited, you're good to go.

Feel free to go to an FFL and pay for a transfer for peace of mind if you want. I personally think a signed and dated bill of sale/gift document would be more appropriate for this situation.

At an FFL he will fill out ATF form 4473 (record of sale) and the PA State Police handgun record of sale form.

A call is placed to the instant check system. They check the list of prohibited people, make sure your son isn't on it, then destroy the record of the background check after a short period of time.

The paper 4473 form stays at the FFL. This will be used in the event of a trace. If a gun is recovered at a crime scene, the ATF goes to the manufacturer or importer and says what distributor did you ship this to? Then they go to that distributor and ask what retailer did you ship this to? They then go to that retailer and ask who did you sell this to on a form 4473? They then go to that person and ask what happened to this gun? If they contacted you doing a trace on your gun, you would say I sold it to my son, and they would then contact your son. Or you could tell them go away, I'm not in the USA.

The PSP handgun form goes to the PSP, and into a database. They are not allowed to use this as a registry but apparently, they sometimes do.

The ATF/DOJ should never have a record of this transaction in a registry, because federal firearm registries are illegal per the Brady Act and the Firearm Owners Protection Act.

I am always interested to learn about gun culture in other countries. Anytime I meet someone from another country I usually make small talk about how guns are viewed and owner in their home country. I'm glad to hear you found some people to shoot with over there.

[markshere2]

Josh nailed it in the first 2 lines.

What .GOV does not know, won't hurt you.

It's legal now, so ex post facto rules laws etc cant hurt you.

[ar15jules]

Here is a question that most missed. Did YOU purchase the firearm in PA? If you did not, it isn't "registered" in your name either in the PA State Police Record of Sale. If you did purchase it in PA, then any LE person who "runs" the firearm will see that you purchased the firearm. They can then see that your son has your same last name. He SHOULDN'T have an issue. If you are worried, go to an FFL and do a transfer. This all hinges on the premise that your son resides in PA as well. If not, you can send to an FFL in his home state from your favorite FFL.

[unclesallie]

JOSH: Thanks to you and for everyone else who responded to my questions. Pretty amazing to me the complications that attend to gun ownership/transfer in the U.S. To answer some implied questions: my son is resident in Pa., and was resident in Pa. at the time of transfer. Me too. It's going to be strange in Land of (Dangerous) Smiles a/k/a/ Thailand, a/k/a Siam, where gun ownership is strictly controlled. Same same in the Phils, except that in the Phils, even as a foreigner I can own and carry multiple weapons as long as I have a permit. The paperwork in the Phils should be "interesting"....I will report back, once this happens this Spring.
Thanks again, everyone! Great forum!

[knight0334]

JOSH: Thanks to you and for everyone else who responded to my questions. Pretty amazing to me the complications that attend to gun ownership/transfer in the U.S. To answer some implied questions: my son is resident in Pa., and was resident in Pa. at the time of transfer. Me too. It's going to be strange in Land of (Dangerous) Smiles a/k/a/ Thailand, a/k/a Siam, where gun ownership is strictly controlled. Same same in the Phils, except that in the Phils, even as a foreigner I can own and carry multiple weapons as long as I have a permit. The paperwork in the Phils should be "interesting"....I will report back, once this happens this Spring.
Thanks again, everyone! Great forum!

Both JoshIronshaft and ar15jules pretty much covered everything in their posts right above yours.

With PA's "Database" sometimes being used as a registry by the police - your son could have problems should he be stopped and police see the handgun in someone else's name.

While direct Father/Son transfers are 100% legal between those relations if both are PA residents - it isn't without the possible issue of ignorant officers. If you do give the handgun to your son directly, I'd recommend a receipt be drafted stating that you are giving it to him. List make, model, and serial # on the receipt. Date it and both sign it.

The absolute safest method is you bring the handgun to a licensed dealer, have your son come with, then do a formal transfer.

[Walleye Hunter]

I want to hear more about life in Bangmycock and the Philippines.

[sawgunner73]

Not sure why gun owners have to make this more difficult than it needs to be. Just give your son the firearm and move on.

[lager1829]

Not sure why gun owners have to make this more difficult than it needs to be. Just give your son the firearm and move on.

This ^^^^