Sig or Smith and Wesson rifle

[vetter3006]

I was looking at the Sig m400 sdi x series or the smith and wesson volunteer pro models as they have the features am looking for.
The smith comes with flip up sights which will save some $ but I like the sig also.
Anyone have experience with either rifle and can give a first hand opinion.
Thanks

[Kain]

What features are you looking at specifically? And what price are you looking at for either rifle? And probably most importantly what are you looking to do with the rifle?

At a glance, for around the $1500 mark from what I can find, I'm personally not terribly impressed on the specs, or lack there of that I can find, of either of them. At least not what their respective websites mention. A "match" trigger in the 4.5-6.5 pound range per the website for the sig for example, which is not far off the pull weight I'd expect out of an "enhanced" milspec trigger. As just one example. The S&W AR barrels have been absolutely unimpressive in the accuracy department in my experience over the last several years. Not that I'd consider Sig rifles to be spectacular in that department, but I'd expect it to group better, but the M400's used to have their own weird proprietary things going on, and that isn't regarding their ambi lowers.

Long and short, for around the $1500 mark, plus or minus, I would be looking at other options. A black friday Geissele super duty, A Centurion Arms upper with a separately assembled lower, or doing like my last work set up, and a BCM ELW upper and a BCM lower with a G$ SSA in it, which if I didn't swap the furniture off the lower,, and shove in a springco buffer spring and H2 buffer I could have had under $1500 in it. As it was, it was probably around $1600 before optics and lights. That set up also shoots like it has a brake on it while only running an A2 flash hider.

[bortle]

Neither one. JMHO. I'd get a Colt, but thats just me.

[Kain]

I mean, for the price point, you can source an M5 carbine for the same or less, $1400-1500, granted, at a glance it still a carbine length gas system and not a midlength, which for the 16 inch barrels is something many, and myself is included here, find preferable for several reasons unless I doing cloner or weird shit. Granted between the Smith and Sig, I'd buy the Colt. It also, the example I am looking at comes with BUIS if that matters, and they Troy's, so yeah. I just don't have time or anyone who's opinion I trust who has any appreciable time on the M5 or it's ambi lower to offer any points on it.

Of course there are the PD trade in 6920's and such, and that really gets into another discussion as well, if you can find them for a good price. Yeah, sure, the 6920/M4 clone set ups can do work just fine, but the features aren't what a lot of people really want outside of cloning for the most part. Not going to say they won't work, they will, but there are better set ups. Especially if you are looking at the new price with a RAS rail and such.

[Ronin]

Who spends $1500 on an AR these days? You can build a really good AR for well under $1k. I get if you want a "name", but really, just build one with quality parts.

[vetter3006]

My primary use will be self defense/ training and range drills.
Am looking for 16" barrel with full lenght free float m lok handguard, magpul or B5 mil spec stock and pistol grip.
Good stage trigger
Want good quality as for self defense.

I went to couple shops but they have small stock to look at and I want to feel and shoulder the rifle and try the trigger and reset.
Building is less $$ but my lack of free time is my issue.
Also anymore I feel like unless it's a daniel defense or geissele or spending $2K on a rifle that you still need to put sights of some kind on then it's not good.
Am trying to keep within a budget so I can still put good sighting system on top and still have $ for more training and of course the ammo.

[Kain]

Building a rifle can be cheaper, assuming you are willing to shop sales, and know what you want. This also assumes you have all the tools already at hand and aren't having to invest in everything from the get go. If you add in buying the tools and everything, and not knowing what you want, playing musical rails or barrels, then realistically building is not cheaper for those looking for a single rifle, or 2 rifles that fill needs. There also the point that depending on ones choice in rail, barrel, bolt/BCG that is gets to the point that nominally the price difference ain't much, might as well let someone else do the QC/QA and then if something is screwy have them fix it. Which for some who are looking at things like a BCM with their ELW barrels, and don't have a need for a more ridge rail because they aren't doing a HR shot with an IR laser under nods, well the choice sort of becomes easy.

My primary use will be self defense/ training and range drills.
Am looking for 16" barrel with full lenght free float m lok handguard, magpul or B5 mil spec stock and pistol grip.
Good stage trigger
Want good quality as for self defense.

I went to couple shops but they have small stock to look at and I want to feel and shoulder the rifle and try the trigger and reset.
Building is less $$ but my lack of free time is my issue.
Also anymore I feel like unless it's a daniel defense or geissele or spending $2K on a rifle that you still need to put sights of some kind on then it's not good.
Am trying to keep within a budget so I can still put good sighting system on top and still have $ for more training and of course the ammo.

OP, how experienced are you with the AR and have you done any work or assembly on one before? I ask because if you're concerned with grip or stock, that is a few minute job to swap to your preference. Trigger isn't that terribly difficult either, unless you have hand strength issues, the hammer can be a pain in that case. And even there, unless the trigger is really crunchy craptastic, for a general purpose self defense rifle I don't find most need a 2 stage trigger, sure it a nicety but not a necessity. And again, it can be easily enough swapped if you have a preference on the trigger down the road. If you are on a budget, the trigger is really the last item on the list of things I would worry about.

As far as how the rifle feels, an AR is an AR is an AR to a point. The rail diameter is going the be the biggest different with mlok rails these days. If you've handled one stripped down AR with a 15 inch rail and a standard gov profile barrel then you've basically handled all ARs with a 15 inch rail and gov profile barrel. Grip and stock are about the only differences otherwise, and as I already said, you can swap those to your heart's content in a few minutes.

The real difference I find is less how they feel in the hands, unless they have been really screwed up, and more how they feel when shooting. The recoil impulse of a carbine with a cheap carbine buffer is different than with an H1 or H2, (and that difference is more than you might think), is different than an well gassed midlength with a springco blue spring and an H2. And different loads will effect that as well, but let's just assume bulk M193 for the moment and the point is there. My current house gun is running a BCM ELW upper an the springco set up and shoots flatter than some comped rifles I have shot. I've shot a short G$ super duty that shot softer than fullsized rifles that were close to twice its weight with the same ammo. There is something to those rifles as it were. That said, I will be the first to tell you to wait until they are running a holiday sale before ordering anything from them because their sales are that much lower than normal pricing. Especially if you are on a budget. That said, I think Primary Arms has the Geissele super duty on sale currently for $1600 and minus the back up irons, it basically checks the boxes, other than being over the $1500 mark.

As far as back up irons go, a lot of companies aren't going to ship with them because it just adds costs and ups the price of the rifle and in 2024 there aren't a lot of people who see the need for back up irons on a rifle. That said, if you want them, pick which ones you want and add them, it is like the grip and stock point, it's subjective. That said, with the taller optics mounts a lot of people are running, your 1.93, ect running back up irons is sort of pointless since you are not really going to be able to use them unless they are offsets. From a home defense standpoint I find them to be more pointless since if my dot is dead because I was stupid and didn't swap my battery and check it regularly, then I am just going to be index shooting the rifle anyway, because I ain't got time to flip up the irons if they were even there. At that point my back up sighting system is the hot spot of my of weapon light.

[arjohnson]

My primary use will be self defense/ training and range drills.
Am looking for 16" barrel with full lenght free float m lok handguard, magpul or B5 mil spec stock and pistol grip.
Good stage trigger
Want good quality as for self defense.

I went to couple shops but they have small stock to look at and I want to feel and shoulder the rifle and try the trigger and reset.
Building is less $$ but my lack of free time is my issue.
Also anymore I feel like unless it's a daniel defense or geissele or spending $2K on a rifle that you still need to put sights of some kind on then it's not good.
Am trying to keep within a budget so I can still put good sighting system on top and still have $ for more training and of course the ammo.

Keep an eye out for Geissele sales, you can pickup a super duty complete gun for as much as 50% off. Not a better gun for the price. Halloween they may have a sale and I believe Black Friday is time of the really good sales, you have to act fast cause they*ll go quick.

[Emptymag]

Tools used to build my pistol...




I forgot to include these in the first pic...




I don't have a bench, so I mounted the vise to a board, and held it in place with my SUV. LOL




Other than the barrel torqued on in my driveway, I assembled the rest of it, sitting at my dining room table.

[arjohnson]

I was looking at the Sig m400 sdi x series or the smith and wesson volunteer pro models as they have the features am looking for.
The smith comes with flip up sights which will save some $ but I like the sig also.
Anyone have experience with either rifle and can give a first hand opinion.
Thanks

I have about 1200.00 in this complete Geissele URG-I minus the optic and tax stamp. 100% Geissele, very accurate, soft shooting and 100% reliable. My most used AR and it*s probably my favorite, now run it 100% suppressed and it*s even better.