firearms in the workplace

**boxcarbob** · December 3rd, 2008, 11:20 AM

hi, i'm new here and have a question regarding taking my handgun to work with me. i've been having no luck finding anything specific about any laws regarding this and i thought this would be a reasonable place to ask.

i work at a fairly seedy hotel and have in the past been threatened and harassed by guests and random passers through, so i decided i ought to have some way to defend myself if my charming personality failed to save me from a beating one day. i asked the owners whether they had a problem with me bringing my 1911 in under my coat and they seemed to be okay with the idea, but suggested i run it by their subordinate and see what he said.

i didn't expect him to have any objection, but he brought up a reasonable point and so far i've failed to be able to find anything to put him at ease; what happens if i shoot someone on the job? would the owners end up in trouble along with me if i was found guilty of some sort of wrongful death or other situation?

i completely understand his concern here, as i wouldn't want anyone to be responsible for something i did, but i've been browsing the state police, lackawanna sheriffs, and every other websites i can think of to find an answer concerning this kind of situation with no luck.

i stumbled across your website a few months ago when i was looking for general concealed carry laws so i figured this wouldn't be a bad place to ask. sources to go with any answers you have would be best, as i want to be able to print them out and come into work to show them directly.

thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

p.s. if this isn't the right subforum or there's a more suitable general q&a forum i apologize, i figured this was more related to cc than anything else.

**axmdr40** · December 3rd, 2008, 11:22 AM

1. The owners said go for it, go for it
2. Carry always
3. Get a new job!

**knight0334** · December 3rd, 2008, 11:46 AM

You'll need to read both the firearms laws(Uniform Firearms Act) Title 18 Chap 61 and the Principles of Justification Title 18 Chap 5.

Under Title 18 Chap 61. You do not need a license to carry concealed at work. However your employer may say otherwise and you could be fired for it.
http://www.frontlinearmory.com/misc/...ml#subchaptera

========

Under Title 18 Chap 5. Your use of force is limited similarly as if you were in your home. You have no duty to retreat in your place of work. However you still must be in a life/death situation. There is no assumption that the person unlawfully present/entering is doing so to cause harm. As for the motel if you shoot, its just like if you shoot someone at home who is trying to butt rape you and has "it" knocking at your "backdoor" with a knife to your throat - you and them can still be sued. You can be sued for anything these days.. There is no legal preemption on civil suites.

Sadly there is nothing in our laws that will make your boss feel safer.

**adymond** · December 3rd, 2008, 02:37 PM

Beat up would imply the use of force by the agressor and is suggestive of severe bodily harm or death. I think that would be a deffensible argument.

ETA: I am not a lawyer so my advice carries ZERO legal weight.

**TaePo** · December 3rd, 2008, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Holden23

I may be off here, but it's my understanding that if you shoot someone to avoid getting beat up at work, you will probably be charged, convicted, lose your firearm rights for life, and most likely be sued too.

I don't think you can use (or even brandish) a firearm to avoid getting into a fight unless you think you're going to be seriously injured or killed.

If I'm mistaken, someone please let me know, but this is my understanding.

Requirements at work are the same as at home.

Exceptions are; imminent threat of death or severe bodily harm must be present but no requirement to retreat unless it is against a co-worker who is lawfully working there at the time, too.

You cannot be the instigator that precipitates the necessary use of deadly force.

Read the sections in the posts above for more details.

IANAL. But there are good justifications in the law. (BTW one probably cannot be hired as security and be armed without act 235 clearance, but personal protection as a standard employee is ok.)

**Dredly** · December 3rd, 2008, 03:10 PM

Whats important to remember is that as a general rule your life must be in danger. If you are working the bar and some drunk reaches across the bar and grabs a bottle and threatens to kick your ass if you come near him then you can not use force.

If he reaches across the bar, grabs a bottle, smashes it and starts threatening you with the sharp end now you can draw on him as your life is in danger.

No matter what happens you will most likely be investigated and charged with a crime and you will have to prove your innocence to the police / in court.

Make sure you are using the right ammo as well, at self defense ranges you better be using a round that has very limited penetration or you run a very serious risk of causing injury to others.

**Chazman321** · December 3rd, 2008, 03:28 PM

If the boss is ok with it, then you're ok. As long as you're not required to carry as part of you job, your LTCF is good enough...

However, if you do end up having to make the decision to shoot or not, it's the same as any shooting, dead men tell no tails so they REALLY REALLY concentrate efforts on the one still alive... Carrying a firearm may give you a little more peace of mind, but it will not stop anyone hell bent on hurting you.

Also, a firearm can be holstered and still be a deterrent, by merely putting your hand on the grip and unsnapping... They don't even have to see it to know what you've got under your shirt. If it comes to that point, get as far away as you can, never let go until the person leaves...

IANAL, free internet advice, you get what you pay for... lol

-Chaz

**jahwarrior72** · December 3rd, 2008, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by boxcarbob

hi, i'm new here and have a question regarding taking my handgun to work with me. i've been having no luck finding anything specific about any laws regarding this and i thought this would be a reasonable place to ask.

i work at a fairly seedy hotel and have in the past been threatened and harassed by guests and random passers through, so i decided i ought to have some way to defend myself if my charming personality failed to save me from a beating one day.

if the boss it's okay, then it's okay.

by the way, if the seedy motel you spoke of the that one on Cedar Ave. in south side, i'd bring a shotgun to work, not a pistol.