PA man convicted of drone hunting.

[bigandy1966]

They can say it's illegal, however I'll play devil's advocate. Where does it say in the PA Game commission handbook that drones may not be used? This reminds me of the open carry argument. If it isn't illegal, then I should be able to do it. Show me the law. Cite the law. What law was broken? This guy was not hurting anyone with his little drone business.

The only law here that was broken was questioning the bunny cop's authority. IMO the PAGC sucks!

Hunting regulations on Game lands : page 13
* Operate an unmanned aerial vehicle (drone) of any size, design
or specification for any purpose whatsoever over lands or waters
designated as state game lands.
Electronic Devices General regulations page 16:
ELECTRONIC DEVICES
It is unlawful to hunt with any electronic contrivance or device,
but the following exceptions apply:
The exceptions are for game calls, electric lighted pins on a bow, thermal scopes for predator hunting, etc.etc.
read it your self, if you are a true hunter you should already know this digest by heart:
https://www.pgc.pa.gov/HuntTrap/Law/...ingDigest.aspx

[JAKIII]

Show me the law.

The smart move would be to file a lawsuit to get a declaratory judgement as to the legality.

The exceptions are for game calls, electric lighted pins on a bow, thermal scopes for predator hunting, etc.etc.
read it your self, if you are a true hunter you should already know this digest by heart:
https://www.pgc.pa.gov/HuntTrap/Law/...ingDigest.aspx

bigandy for the win!

[Coops]

It hardly seems like entrapment when:

1). You advertise the service to the public.

2). You're warned it's illegal.

3). You agree to provide the advertised service anyway.

That said, this seems totally fucking stupid. If you've shot and wounded a deer, why in the fuck would you have a policy that makes it harder for someone to finish it off, thereby allow it to walk around suffering?

He advertised out in the open. It was not some secret black ops thing.
He was told it was illegal by Game commission people. You know that cops don't know the law for every situation. They just want their word taken as gospel. They arrest and let the court decide. How many times have you seen cops get their department sued over a bad arrest? So what does he do? He hires a lawyer and the lawyer tells him what he is doing is OK.
So the government comes to him and lies about shooting a deer. AND SIGNS AN AFFIDAVIT that they are being truthful and are not using the service to hunt but only to find a wounded animal.

Here's a guy who is suing Michigan in federal court over the exact same scenario
https://www.agweb.com/news/business/...-vs-government

[Palerider]

Entrapment requires much more than LEO asking someone to do something. It requires an unreasonable degree of coercion & pressure, something no ordinary law-abiding citizen could refuse.

There was an old case where undercover DEA agents told the defendant that if he didn't participate, they'd kill his family. They told the court "that's what real drug dealers would do". Held not to be entrapment.

On the other hand, John DeLorean was targeted by DEA (or maybe FBI, I forget) at the worst moment of his life, when he had a factory in Ireland making his eponymous cars, he was going bankrupt, hundreds of workers and dealers were going to be ruined, and Feds met him and made him an offer that if he financed 1 drug deal, he'd make enough to save it all. Then they arrested him. He was acquitted.

I*m not surprised this wouldn*t meet the legal definition of entrapment. Of course the government will give itself the most leeway as possible. Calling for the service and lying about your situation seems on brand for gov.

[Palerider]

That said, this seems totally fucking stupid. If you've shot and wounded a deer, why in the fuck would you have a policy that makes it harder for someone to finish it off, thereby allow it to walk around suffering?

In PA there*s no legal allowance to finish off a wounded animal after hunting hours are over. There*s a moral view but not sure how each individual warden would respond if called.

[esh21167]

In PA there*s no legal allowance to finish off a wounded animal after hunting hours are over. There*s a moral view but not sure how each individual warden would respond if called.

This should also be revisited. I've known many that have tracked and found a wounded dear after 'shooting hours.' Are hunters expected to just stand there and wait for it to die? If it's a bad shot, that could take hours, maybe days.

[cdi]

I*m fortunate in that I*ve never lost a deer that I*ve shot.
That said, I*m seeing a business opportunity here.
I need to invent a firearm that fires air tags.

[Here4now]

In PA there*s no legal allowance to finish off a wounded animal after hunting hours are over. There*s a moral view but not sure how each individual warden would respond if called.

This should also be revisited. I've known many that have tracked and found a wounded dear after 'shooting hours.' Are hunters expected to just stand there and wait for it to die? If it's a bad shot, that could take hours, maybe days.

I did the moral (illegal) thing one time.

But getting back to the drone issue:

Yes, it’s illegal to use an electronic devise to hunt. But this guy wasn’t hunting. It’s also illegal to use dogs to hunt big game in PA, and yet the PAGC approved the use of tracking dogs to recover deer.

Seems the same to me and the GC should also legalize drones for recovery.

[free]

He advertised out in the open. It was not some secret black ops thing.
He was told it was illegal by Game commission people. You know that cops don't know the law for every situation. They just want their word taken as gospel. They arrest and let the court decide. How many times have you seen cops get their department sued over a bad arrest? So what does he do? He hires a lawyer and the lawyer tells him what he is doing is OK.
So the government comes to him and lies about shooting a deer. AND SIGNS AN AFFIDAVIT that they are being truthful and are not using the service to hunt but only to find a wounded animal.

Here's a guy who is suing Michigan in federal court over the exact same scenario
https://www.agweb.com/news/business/...-vs-government

Yeah...so I don't see how it is possibly entrapment.

[Daycrawler]

Hunting regulations on Game lands : page 13

Is Welsh mountain considered a state game lands park?

I searched for Pa state parks and under the list for W, Welsh mountain does not show up.

W
Warriors Path State Park

Washington Crossing Historic Park - FacebookOpens In A New Window

Whipple Dam State Park

White Clay Creek Preserve

Worlds End State Park

I further searched the map of PA state game lands. Welsh mountain is not on the list.


Hunting Information
Welsh Mountain is open to Mixed-Use Hunting. Respect property boundaries and safety zones. All Pennsylvania Game Commission Rules and Regulations apply. See *Where to Hunt* for more details.

Report Hunting Violations: PA Game Commission Centralized Dispatch Center at 1-833-PGC-HUNT (1-833-742-4868) or 1-833-PGC-WILD (1-833-742-9453)


******STATE GAME LANDS REGULATIONS****** From page 13*****

Operate an unmanned aerial vehicle (drone) of any size, design
or specification for any purpose whatsoever over lands or waters
****designated as state game lands.****


The verbiage maybe picayune, however when you arrest a man for a perceived violation of the law, the law better exist. The way I see it is this, Welsh mountain is not on the list as a state game lands. The violation cited is for state game lands. I see no violation.