Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    next to my neighbor, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.

    Karen= ATF
    Henry = gun owners


    That's what I see with this tyrannical mess.



    FJB

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Fayette, Pennsylvania
    (Fayette County)
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    139
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    1116460

    Default Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Govt gets paid to hurt us, we have to defend ourselves with after-tax savings. That game is rigged, and explains the 99% conviction rate in Federal courts.
    Understood; can you recommend a law school which is affordable for anyone on here interested in trying to join your ranks in trying to make a difference? I've heard of some becoming lawyers even later in life and continuing to help others into their retirement years.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Berks County, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Garland is spineless, he does as The Party tells him. That's why they wanted him to rubber-stamp Party demands on the Supreme Court.

    You can see it in any video of him speaking. He's had all the spirit beaten out of him.

    All of the leading Democrats today are figureheads, shoved to the front to do the bidding of The Party, while the real power behind the throne remains hidden, just in case Bastille Day II happens.

    Look at Biden, Mayor Pete, the Energy lady, and Kamala. They're all like trained chimps in little sailor suits, given treats for dancing the routines they were taught. Mayor Pete didn't even hide it, taking office and promptly leaving to chest feed his adoptee, because he knew he was a puppet & the department didn't need his presence, then or ever. The Dept of Energy puppet was unable to answer when asked the most basic energy question, "how much oil do we use per day?"
    I'm assuming you mean this one:

    8mtf86.jpg

    Not this one...

    8mtfcv.jpg

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Pen Argyl, Pennsylvania
    (Northampton County)
    Posts
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    9037732

    Default Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.

    This will kill off most of my local FFLs.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Mt. Pleasant
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    Default Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.

    Quote Originally Posted by John_Wick View Post
    This will kill off most of my local FFLs.
    Why would it affect ffl holders? I may be wrong but the ones i see this affecting is people that constantly flipping guns there are a few usernames on here that i can see them looking into because they always have something for sale and often mutiple. Realistically they dont have the time to go after everyone who sells a gun once in a blue moon.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Canonsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Washington County)
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    Default Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.

    Several posters seem to be whistling past the graveyard on this issue. There is absolutely nothing to take comfort with here.

    "First they came after the Flippers and I said nothing because I wasn't a Flipper"

    We can only hope this will be swiftly struck down in the courts or else the right person gets elected President in 2024.
    Last edited by TSimonetti; April 21st, 2024 at 08:22 PM.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Richboro, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSimonetti View Post
    Several posters seem to be whistling past the graveyard on this issue. There is absolutely nothing to take comfort with here.

    "First they came after the Flippers and I said nothing because I wasn't a Flipper"

    We can only hope this will be swiftly struck down in the courts or else the right person gets elected President in 2024.
    I posted this on a parallel thread about this subject. To me this new rule finally clarifies that its OK for people to sell their personal collection if they are not flipping. What am I missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delkal View Post
    From what I see not counting firearms for self-protection were in the older laws. This new bill clarified that this is not the case and you can sell them. There is a lot of bitching and misinformation about this bill but for gun owners who are not flipping guns this rule is a win.

    Sounds clear to me....
    Under the GCA and this rule, a person
    who **makes occasional sales,
    exchanges, or purchases of firearms for
    the enhancement of a personal
    collection or for a hobby, or who sells
    all
    or part of the person*s personal
    collection of firearms** is not **engaged
    in the business** of dealing firearms.
    478.13(a). In addition, nothing in the
    GCA or this rule precludes a person
    from lawfully purchasing firearms for
    self-protection or other lawful personal
    use, or making isolated sales of such
    firearms
    without devoting time,
    attention, and labor to dealing in
    firearms as a regular course of trade or
    business. A single or isolated sale of a
    firearm that generates pecuniary gain to
    help make ends meet, care for loved
    ones, or pay for food, rent or other
    obligations would not alone be
    sufficient to qualify as being engaged in
    the business; instead, there would need
    to be additional conduct indicative of
    firearms dealing within the meaning of
    the GCA. Similarly, persons who
    liquidate (without restocking) all or part
    of their personal collection are not
    considered to be engaged in the
    business
    and may use the proceeds for
    lawful purposes, including those
    mentioned above. However, a person
    could still be engaged in the business
    even when they are using proceeds to
    make ends meet, care for loved ones, or
    pay for food, rent, or other obligations
    if they were to engage in additional
    conduct that is indicative of firearms
    dealing within the meaning of the GCA.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Canonsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Washington County)
    Posts
    417
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    Default Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.

    "Similarly, persons who
    liquidate (without restocking) all or part
    of their personal collection are not
    considered to be engaged in the
    business"

    Without restocking? That seems like a big deal to me. So once I start selling off part of my collection, I can't buy any more to replace them? Sounds like they either don't know what collecting means or else they are trying to end collecting.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSimonetti View Post
    "Similarly, persons who
    liquidate (without restocking) all or part
    of their personal collection are not
    considered to be engaged in the
    business"

    Without restocking? That seems like a big deal to me. So once I start selling off part of my collection, I can't buy any more to replace them? Sounds like they either don't know what collecting means or else they are trying to end collecting.
    Sounds like "win" as long as you're not flipping.
    Accuse your enemy of what you are doing as you are doing it to create confusion -Karl Marx

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    York, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
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    5480760

    Default Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSimonetti View Post
    "Similarly, persons who
    liquidate (without restocking) all or part
    of their personal collection are not
    considered to be engaged in the
    business"

    Without restocking? That seems like a big deal to me. So once I start selling off part of my collection, I can't buy any more to replace them? Sounds like they either don't know what collecting means or else they are trying to end collecting.
    Before you get all ruffed up and start thumping your chest, this new redefinition is aimed at those guys (and yes, we all see them at shows) that are selling their *private collection* of firearms at multiple shows throughout the year*..year after year after year. They always have signs on their tables marked *private collection* and never seem to run out of guns to sell. I can name off several of these guys that maintain a business presence at shows, but skirt having an FFL to do background checks. It should also be noted that you can still be considered a dealer operating without a license even if you are selling to a licensed dealer, or are transferring firearms through a dealer. This isn*t aimed at any person selling a couple firearms a year. It is solely aimed at those guys that go to flea markets every weekend, gun shops through the week, auctions, etc. to purchase firearms at a low value and then resell them. It is also aimed at the Amish community gun dealers that send one person with an ID, to shows or dealers to purchase firearms and then resell them to their community without doing background checks.

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