John C Garand Matches - Kinda Fuddy?

[jthrelf]

A buddy of mine asked me to join him at a Garand match in which I was initially interested in. When diving into the rules something stuck out to me. The M1 Garand, the greatest battle implement ever devised, and very much a semi-auto, gets neutered in these matches by:

1) forcing a single cartridge load in two of the stages
2) forcing a load of 2 rounds then a full 8 round clip in the other stage

The M1 was never designed to be fielded or operated in this manner. It seems, well, silly... And to my original point - FUDDY.

The rifle has a clip eject feature to unload and show clear. Why force an exact load of only 10 rounds? Load a clip, shoot, ping, load another, shoot twice, clear chamber and eject clip. Simple. All while the range is still hot and you're pointed down range. I don't see the issue.

Instead of just doing it this way, a bunch of doodads are needed to follow the courses of fire - 2 round clips, single load tools, etc.

For those experienced with these matches - what gives?

[imashooter2]

I can*t speak directly to this Garand Match as I*ve never been. That said, at all matches rules are in place to try to provide safety when the competitors can range from expert to idiot.

[Delkal]

I believe you can only load one round at a time in all of the National trophy matches slow fire segments. This includes all of the military matches like camp Perry and is not just the Garand or service rifle matches. In the slow courses you get a minute per shot so you could be standing on the firing line for 10-20 min with a round in the chamber while resting your arms on occasion. That doesn't sound safe and I believe all of the top shooters would still load single rounds even if they could use a magazine.

For the Garand rapid fire courses everyone uses a modified clip that only holds 2 rounds first. After it pings they put in a fully loaded clip with 8 to finish the 10 shots

[jthrelf]

I believe you can only load one round at a time in all of the National trophy matches slow fire segments. This includes all of the military matches like camp Perry and is not just the Garand or service rifle matches. In the slow courses you get a minute per shot so you could be standing on the firing line for 10-20 min with a round in the chamber while resting your arms on occasion. That doesn't sound safe and I believe all of the top shooters would still load single rounds even if they could use a magazine.

For the Garand rapid fire courses everyone uses a modified clip that only holds 2 rounds first. After it pings they put in a fully loaded clip with 8 to finish the 10 shots

I guess my problem is: an as-issued rifle is required, the CMP was chartered so that people could learn marksmanship for defense of the nation, so why not do it like the battlefield i.e. if you're shooting at an enemy and pause, you don't single load, you maybe put the safety on and then keep your finger off the trigger.

I just don't see a safety issue with operating a rifle as designed

[X Hunter]

There is history in the match that you fired with the M1 Garand, Fuddyness has nothing to do with it.

My grandfather shot in the 1919 Expeditionary Forces rifle matches in Le Mans France, where he won a silver medal and was one of 6 competitors to fire a perfect score in the in the 200yd sitting rapid fire. He fired the Springfield bolt action rifle which holds 5 rounds and can be loaded from a stripper clip. Rapid fire was 5 shots, reload, shoot 5 more. Slow fire was load one shoot one.
When the Garand came to being and held 8 rounds, to keep the course of fire the same, slow fire was load one shoot one. For rapid fire, 2 rounds were crossed in an 8 shot clip and fired first, then the reload was done with an 8 shot clip. Today, there are 2 shot clips available.
The practice continues today for the AR platform where competitors can load 2+8 or 5+5; the reload continues even though there is a 30 round mag for the AR. I would assume that reloading under the time constraint of a rifle match helps to simulate reloading in battle. Slow fire continues to be single load, load one/shoot one.

The 1919 course of fire at Le Mans was

Range Time Shots RF Target Position
300 No Limit 10 A 5 Sitting + 5 Kneeling
500 No Limit 10 B Prone
600 No Limit 10 (2 S.S.) B Prone

Range Time Shots SF Target Position
200 1 min 10 D Sitting or Kneeling from Standing
300 70 sec 10 D Prone from Standing
500 90 sec 10 D Prone

[oldengineer]

The range rules were more stringent back in 1959 when a busload of all idiot Navy recruits, me included, hit the range at Camp Pendleton to fire the M1 Garand. It was familiarization only, no quals or fails, but I got an OK from my instructor.

[Walleye Hunter]

I don't have any experiences with matches or group shooting events but at trap night at my local range, it's only one shell in the gun at a time. And even then, not until it's your turn to shoot.

[JAKIII]

The range rules were more stringent back in 1959 when a busload of all idiot Navy recruits, me included, hit the range at Camp Pendleton to fire the M1 Garand. It was familiarization only, no quals or fails, but I got an OK from my instructor.

Coincidentally, Dad was stationed at Pendleton when I was born in 59.

[Delkal]

Coincidentally, Dad was stationed at Pendleton when I was born in 59.

Sounds like Jerry Springer should have a Poofa edition ........

[oldengineer]

Coincidentally, Dad was stationed at Pendleton when I was born in 59.

Like father, like son eh? My son used to get seasick so he joined the Army and retired as an E-9 after 23 years.