Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: 2023 HB 336 Assault Weapons Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmedDragon View Post
    I totally get the frustration but no one is going to listen to us if we write/speak like that. We need to remain calm and professional or we will look unhinged and we will be ignored.
    If you think that any of them gives a damn, what we think or have to say, then I don't know what to tell ya. Their only goal is too stay "in power" and reap said benefits of it. Also, their staff are the ones that intercept and filter every thing they receive. If your lucky and catch them in person, then they give you lip service and tell you what you want too hear... so that you just go away. But whatever.. you do you.
    "If you're not catching flak, you're not over the target"

  2. #22
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    Default Re: 2023 HB 336 Assault Weapons Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by mikelets456 View Post
    Tried that---calm, collective, keep quiet. It doesn't work. Actually our "compliance" has made things far worse----look how the media portrays us at the 9/12 project, peaceful gun rallies, Tea party, etc...grandparents waving American flags while their grandchildren are sitting on their laps and they're labeled as "Nazis". it does not matter how calm and how much we comply. In 2006, for having an opinion regarding what's taught in schools, I have had death threats, bank account compromised and challenged for literally praying peacefully or simply attending a rally. The media portrays us (regardless) as "White supremacist's, Nazis, Bigots, baby killers, etc". We were labeled as such for 2 years even though we were completely peaceful but didn't comply.

    If we kept quiet about all this Covid BS, we'd still be in lockdowns. I have learned, you can state the truth, but do it factually and rationally. If you believe complying will win you favor then you are sadly mislead and mistaken. Also, stating the TRUTH is not unprofessional and the most offensive thing to the left is the truth---brutal truth.

    But I'm quite surprised you're thinking that the media will (all of the sudden) start portraying us as "peaceful" freedom loving people if we keep complying. I'm actually shocked you would believe this. BTW, look at Canada and the UK---people are being arrested for simply praying in front of abortion clinics. But go ahead, keep complying and withdrawing to each new line that's drawn. I've tried for 2 decades with skirting issues, talking super nice and avoiding direct truth---it doesn't work. You have a better way of doing this then I'm all ears. But if your only objective is not contact reps, go to rallies and come here to critique me for acting against tyranny, then good riddance. I don't want anything to do with you.
    Oh I don't think the media is gonna change their opinion on us at all. Fox is the only channel that gives John Lott or Colion Noir, or anyone on our side the time of day. I also agree with you that the politicians won't change their opinions either. The party line has become firmer than ever before and I think that's bad. I guess what I worded poorly was that our comments and behavior in public are what determines if we can win over swing voters. Being in a swing state, I'd much rather match the polite discourse of my opponent but arm my swing vote neighbors and friends with the mathematical proof that they are safer with a gun than without. I want to convince those not fully decided on guns to join me at the range and see for themselves how fun it is, and how the weapons are just tools that aren't actually scary. Both Colion and Warrior Poet Society (I watch too many GunTubers) say, taking an anti-gunner to the range can change their mind. For me, I found that to work once, but every moderate, or on the fence person I've taken, either owns a gun now, or has at least seen my side of the fence far more clearly. I say that as someone who's a terrible debater and a gun newbie (thanks NY for making this difficult most of my life) and I'm still convincing them. The thing is I avoid attacking candidates or organizations. I just calmly point out that they lie, and provide proof. I point out gun laws vs FBI crime stats for those regions.

    It's fine to send frustrating letters to Congress, but I wouldn't post that stuff here, not because of "Free speech" but because how we act in public, is how we win or lose the swing votes. If this forum required approved membership to view posts, I never would have left my previous comment. We need to win the culture war on guns.

    /defense
    *Libertarian Screeching*

  3. #23
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    Default Re: 2023 HB 336 Assault Weapons Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmedDragon View Post
    Oh I don't think the media is gonna change their opinion on us at all. Fox is the only channel that gives John Lott or Colion Noir, or anyone on our side the time of day. I also agree with you that the politicians won't change their opinions either. The party line has become firmer than ever before and I think that's bad. I guess what I worded poorly was that our comments and behavior in public are what determines if we can win over swing voters. Being in a swing state, I'd much rather match the polite discourse of my opponent but arm my swing vote neighbors and friends with the mathematical proof that they are safer with a gun than without. I want to convince those not fully decided on guns to join me at the range and see for themselves how fun it is, and how the weapons are just tools that aren't actually scary. Both Colion and Warrior Poet Society (I watch too many GunTubers) say, taking an anti-gunner to the range can change their mind. For me, I found that to work once, but every moderate, or on the fence person I've taken, either owns a gun now, or has at least seen my side of the fence far more clearly. I say that as someone who's a terrible debater and a gun newbie (thanks NY for making this difficult most of my life) and I'm still convincing them. The thing is I avoid attacking candidates or organizations. I just calmly point out that they lie, and provide proof. I point out gun laws vs FBI crime stats for those regions.

    It's fine to send frustrating letters to Congress, but I wouldn't post that stuff here, not because of "Free speech" but because how we act in public, is how we win or lose the swing votes. If this forum required approved membership to view posts, I never would have left my previous comment. We need to win the culture war on guns.

    /defense
    I agree with you when you put it that way. I have brought numerous people to the range since Covid. I also stood in 6 hours lines helping them choose a gun, learn the basics of handling, shooting and safety. I used to talk to these people for years about defending life, family and property and every single one would literally respond with "Yeah, yeah, yeah----You tell me that all the time".

    I have come to the conclusion that the ONLY way to persuade people to be pro gun is invite them to the range, tell the (specifically) the importance of gun ownership and point out how dangerous things are and closing in on safe areas.

    I was amazed when I was at a SOCMA show in TN a few weeks back, that everyone at our breakfast table owned a gun or just bought one. Two of the 6 people at the table are Jewish and were anti-gun until there were a few break ins and a woman killed in their neighborhood. The other guy is a looney leftist but guns are (now) are one thing we agree on. I didn't convince them of anything over time---yea, maybe putting the bug in their ear. But I believe what motivated them was "fear". Just the same reason people that had Covid also got the vaccine and continued to do so even (after) they had several bouts of Covid after vaccination and boosters. I have to be honest, I have used this "fear" (creatively) to sway the judgement towards gun ownership. If we each take 1-2 new people a year to the range and convince them to to be pro-gun, within 3 year we could essentially have 80% gun ownership in the state. That works better than any legislation or rally...
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." Thomas Jefferson

  4. #24
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    Default Re: 2023 HB 336 Assault Weapons Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmedDragon View Post
    I totally get the frustration but no one is going to listen to us if we write/speak like that. We need to remain calm and professional or we will look unhinged and we will be ignored.
    Awww, thats cute, you still think they listen to us.
    You want to be ignored, try to reason with a gun grabber. All they understand is "unhinged", it's their language, everything else is blau, blau blau, blau.
    The Hostler

  5. #25
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    Default Re: 2023 HB 336 Assault Weapons Ban

    After careful consideration of the "facts and fantasies" being presented recently in the media concerning gun rights, I would agree perhaps it is truly time for change.
    The overwhelming majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens that go about their everyday business without the general public even knowing they are gun owners or supporters of the Second Amendment. To a large extent, this has been our goal, "no one needs to know".

    Here is the rub.... to the media, politicians (local, state, and federal) and the general public we are a nameless, faceless group. As a group we don't stage sit-ins, we don't plan million person marches, we don't burn flags or pull down monuments. We exist under the radar. We do an excellent job not letting the media, politicians and general public confront the fact we are parents, grandparents, teachers, doctors, construction workers, school bus drivers, you know...average hard working citizens choosing to exercise a Constitutional right.

    Maybe we need a change, become more visible, become more vocal. Instead of being on the defensive to protect gun rights move to the offensive and profess gun rights.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: 2023 HB 336 Assault Weapons Ban

    The media is pushing that the right to self defense isn't a thing. Like that commie up in canada said, justin trudeau, "You do not have a right to protect yourself with a gun. It's just not a right you have." That's the narrative they want people believing. And while it may be a completely unbelievable concept to you or I, there's a lot of people that are falling in line.

    Right now, if your brother/sister/friend was mugged, shot, and killed, you would blame the attacker. But generally speaking, you don't think to yourself "why did my brother/sister/friend not have a gun to protect their own life?" Society will not protect you. The police will not protect you. The only person who will protect you is you.

    My wife is from a country without guns. She came to america at 26. Had never even seen a gun in real life prior to in my house. Up until covid she was very uncomfortable around them, and that's fine. It's her choice. But when covid hit and society really started crumbling around us, she got a lot more comfortable around them, was glad that I was carrying, because for the first time, she was seeing real crime happening in our area.

    And that's what is happening with a lot of people now, the crime is real, they're seeing it with their own eyes, and they want to protect themselves. The media and dem's are trying to counter that with "things are safe, we will protect you" but to many people are not seeing the protection, and are arming up. All it takes is shit to hit to close to home, for people to open their eyes.

  7. #27
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    Levittown, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: 2023 HB 336 Assault Weapons Ban

    The historical facts is our legislators have passed laws forbidden by both constitutions. What sense does it make to think they give a fuck what any of us think or want. We either have a constitution or we don't. Obviously, we don't. Ergo, I no longer set myself up for insulting auto-responses.
    There are two kinds of guns. Those I have acquired, and those I hope to.

  8. #28
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    Nov 2018
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    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: 2023 HB 336 Assault Weapons Ban

    Looks like Santarsiero is gearing up to reintroduce his atrocious ban bill SB1300 from last session: https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs...cosponId=40223

    SB1300 was basically a full semi-auto ban with registration of grandfathered items that must be renewed every 5 years. It also appears to roll in a mag ban, a parts ban, and safe storage requirements.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: 2023 HB 336 Assault Weapons Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ar15_shooter View Post
    Looks like Santarsiero is gearing up to reintroduce his atrocious ban bill SB1300 from last session: https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs...cosponId=40223

    SB1300 was basically a full semi-auto ban with registration of grandfathered items that must be renewed every 5 years. It also appears to roll in a mag ban, a parts ban, and safe storage requirements.
    Wow. One giant leap towards NY style authoritarianism. I sincerely hope I didnít make a mistake by moving to PA. The red Senate needs to hold out and we need to push forward better less controversial candidates next election so we donít end up losing even further.
    *Libertarian Screeching*

  10. #30
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    Default Re: 2023 HB 336 Assault Weapons Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmedDragon View Post
    Wow. One giant leap towards NY style authoritarianism. I sincerely hope I didn*t make a mistake by moving to PA. The red Senate needs to hold out and we need to push forward better less controversial candidates next election so we don*t end up losing even further.
    Maybe if you act calm and write a real nice letter, showing you're a rational, compliant person, then he'll change his mind.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." Thomas Jefferson

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