Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Criminal and Civil Prosecutions

    The topic of CCW insurance was being discussed on another forum and someone said that according to PA law, if someone is found not guilty in a criminal case (regarding a self defense shooting), that they cannot be sued in a civil court for 'damages.' I asked for documentation and he provided:

    PA ST 18 Pa.C.S.505(b)(2.1).

    I copied what I believe to be that correct statute and see nothing concerning that issue. Is there any validity to that person's claim?

    (2.1) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (2.2), an actor is presumed to have a reasonable belief that deadly force is immediately necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat if both of the following conditions exist:

    (i) The person against whom the force is used is in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or has unlawfully and forcefully entered and is present within, a dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle; or the person against whom the force is used is or is attempting to unlawfully and forcefully remove another against that other's will from the dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle.

    (ii) The actor knows or has reason to believe that the unlawful and forceful entry or act is occurring or has occurred.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Criminal and Civil Prosecutions

    Being found not guilty in a criminal proceeding may improve your odds of a better outcome in a civil proceeding, but it doesn't prohibit the other party from making a money grab.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Criminal and Civil Prosecutions

    § 8340.2. Civil immunity for use of force.

    (a) General rule.--An actor who uses force:

    (1) in self-protection as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 505 (relating to use of force in self-protection);

    (2) in the protection of other persons as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 506 (relating to use of force for the protection of other persons);

    (3) for the protection of property as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 507 (relating to use of force for the protection of property);

    (4) in law enforcement as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 508 (relating to use of force in law enforcement); or

    (5) consistent with the actor's special responsibility for care, discipline or safety of others as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 509 (relating to use of force by persons with special responsibility for care, discipline or safety of others)

    is justified in using such force and shall be immune from civil liability for personal injuries sustained by a perpetrator which were caused by the acts or omissions of the actor as a result of the use of force.

    (b) Attorney fees and costs.--If the actor who satisfies the requirements of subsection (a) prevails in a civil action initiated by or on behalf of a perpetrator against the actor, the court shall award reasonable expenses to the actor. Reasonable expenses shall include, but not be limited to, attorney fees, expert witness fees, court costs and compensation for loss of income.

    (c) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "perpetrator" shall mean a person against whom an actor is justified in using force as provided by 18 Pa.C.S. § 505, 506, 507, 508 or 509.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Criminal and Civil Prosecutions

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    § 8340.2. Civil immunity for use of force.

    (a) General rule.--An actor who uses force:

    (1) in self-protection as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 505 (relating to use of force in self-protection);

    (2) in the protection of other persons as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 506 (relating to use of force for the protection of other persons);

    (3) for the protection of property as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 507 (relating to use of force for the protection of property);

    (4) in law enforcement as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 508 (relating to use of force in law enforcement); or

    (5) consistent with the actor's special responsibility for care, discipline or safety of others as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 509 (relating to use of force by persons with special responsibility for care, discipline or safety of others)

    is justified in using such force and shall be immune from civil liability for personal injuries sustained by a perpetrator which were caused by the acts or omissions of the actor as a result of the use of force.

    (b) Attorney fees and costs.--If the actor who satisfies the requirements of subsection (a) prevails in a civil action initiated by or on behalf of a perpetrator against the actor, the court shall award reasonable expenses to the actor. Reasonable expenses shall include, but not be limited to, attorney fees, expert witness fees, court costs and compensation for loss of income.

    (c) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "perpetrator" shall mean a person against whom an actor is justified in using force as provided by 18 Pa.C.S. § 505, 506, 507, 508 or 509.
    This is confusing. If you are immune from civil liability, how do you prevail in a civil action that can't be brought? I understand they can file a suit, but shouldn't a judge dismiss it immediately? I would think that there shouldn't even be a hearing on the suit.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Criminal and Civil Prosecutions

    Quote Originally Posted by wew3 View Post
    This is confusing. If you are immune from civil liability, how do you prevail in a civil action that can't be brought? I understand they can file a suit, but shouldn't a judge dismiss it immediately? I would think that there shouldn't even be a hearing on the suit.
    If the judges ruled on the actual law rather than what they thought the law should be, yes, but that is not the case today.
    Gender confusion is a mental illness

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Criminal and Civil Prosecutions

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    § 8340.2. Civil immunity for use of force.

    (a) General rule.--An actor who uses force:

    (1) in self-protection as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 505 (relating to use of force in self-protection);

    (2) in the protection of other persons as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 506 (relating to use of force for the protection of other persons);

    (3) for the protection of property as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 507 (relating to use of force for the protection of property);

    (4) in law enforcement as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 508 (relating to use of force in law enforcement); or

    (5) consistent with the actor's special responsibility for care, discipline or safety of others as provided in 18 Pa.C.S. § 509 (relating to use of force by persons with special responsibility for care, discipline or safety of others)

    is justified in using such force and shall be immune from civil liability for personal injuries sustained by a perpetrator which were caused by the acts or omissions of the actor as a result of the use of force.

    (b) Attorney fees and costs.--If the actor who satisfies the requirements of subsection (a) prevails in a civil action initiated by or on behalf of a perpetrator against the actor, the court shall award reasonable expenses to the actor. Reasonable expenses shall include, but not be limited to, attorney fees, expert witness fees, court costs and compensation for loss of income.

    (c) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "perpetrator" shall mean a person against whom an actor is justified in using force as provided by 18 Pa.C.S. § 505, 506, 507, 508 or 509.
    This is helpful, but I do have this same question:

    Quote Originally Posted by wew3 View Post
    This is confusing. If you are immune from civil liability, how do you prevail in a civil action that can't be brought? I understand they can file a suit, but shouldn't a judge dismiss it immediately? I would think that there shouldn't even be a hearing on the suit.
    Perhaps the civil case is prior to or occurring at the same time as the criminal case?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Criminal and Civil Prosecutions

    Quote Originally Posted by wew3 View Post
    This is confusing. If you are immune from civil liability, how do you prevail in a civil action that can't be brought? I understand they can file a suit, but shouldn't a judge dismiss it immediately? I would think that there shouldn't even be a hearing on the suit.
    The perpetrator sues. The court finds that actor was justified in using such force and is immune from civil liability. The court then awards expenses to the actor incurred for the bulls**t lawsuit.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Criminal and Civil Prosecutions

    Quote Originally Posted by wew3 View Post
    This is confusing. If you are immune from civil liability, how do you prevail in a civil action that can't be brought? I understand they can file a suit, but shouldn't a judge dismiss it immediately? I would think that there shouldn't even be a hearing on the suit.
    The aggressor's estate or family draft a complaint, they file it with the court, they serve a copy, and you have a short time to draft & file a response or else you lose.

    The clerk doesn't reject a pleading, you have to file a motion and get a judge to hear arguments and order the case dismissed, and award costs. The judge decides whether the facts pled fall within self-defense, which can be somewhat involved if you were never criminally charged by the DA. Without that precedent, the civil judge has to hear evidence and decide whether he thinks the immunity applies. You as the defendant have to pay for all of that work, and the plaintiffs could be judgment-proof, meaning the award of costs is uncollectible.

    Judges are people, and the rules are the rules; if you ignore a complaint, you waive your objections and you can lose by default. Or an anti-gun judge can try to find a way around the immunity. Immunity has to be asserted & proven.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Criminal and Civil Prosecutions

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    The aggressor's estate or family draft a complaint, they file it with the court, they serve a copy, and you have a short time to draft & file a response or else you lose.

    The clerk doesn't reject a pleading, you have to file a motion and get a judge to hear arguments and order the case dismissed, and award costs. The judge decides whether the facts pled fall within self-defense, which can be somewhat involved if you were never criminally charged by the DA. Without that precedent, the civil judge has to hear evidence and decide whether he thinks the immunity applies. You as the defendant have to pay for all of that work, and the plaintiffs could be judgment-proof, meaning the award of costs is uncollectible.

    Judges are people, and the rules are the rules; if you ignore a complaint, you waive your objections and you can lose by default. Or an anti-gun judge can try to find a way around the immunity. Immunity has to be asserted & proven.
    Thanks for that clarification.

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