Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Honesdale, Pennsylvania
    (Wayne County)
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    2990182

    Default Re: Got a fine shooting at SGL range

    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
    You have to go in person.
    Thats a problem. I recently started a new job and moved. It'd be difficult to take a day off and drive 1.5 hours to the court date. Looks like I'm out of luck and have to plea guilty.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Levittown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Posts
    9,636
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    Default Re: Got a fine shooting at SGL range

    This incident suggests with luxury of hindsight that it would be wise to always go with a second person when target shooting and even hunting.

    Law enforcement officers have some degree of pressure to show activity. Not saying quotas, just that rules and laws do get broken and an enforcement officer who never finds anything wrong is viewed as useless. If on probation, it can mean the job. If a John Wayne syndrome, he can be the guy determined to lead in violation prosecutions...resulting in this kind of "enforcement". It takes all kinds.

    If challenging in a District Justice setting and you lose, posting a bail (double the fine, I believe) allows you to appeal to Commonwealth Court (County). That level, finding no evidence beyond the agent's testimony, is very likely to find for you.
    There are two kinds of guns. Those I have acquired, and those I hope to.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    ..............., Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    5,441
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    18796216

    Default Re: Got a fine shooting at SGL range

    This subchapter cited in 58 Pa. Code § 135.41 (relating to State Game Lands).
    § 135.181. Rifle and handgun ranges.

    (a) General provisions. In addition to § 135.2 (relating to unlawful actions), the following pertain to lands under Commission ownership, lease or jurisdiction designated as rifle or handgun ranges:

    (1) Rifle and handgun ranges are open from 8 a.m., prevailing time, until sunset Monday through Saturday and from 12 noon to sunset Sunday, unless otherwise posted; except the Sunday immediately preceding and any Sunday throughout the duration of the regular firearms deer seasons and the regular firearms bear seasons, when the hours are 8 a.m. to sunset.


    (2) A range may be reserved for exclusive use by an organized group from January 1 through October 1. Applications for a range reservation shall be made through the appropriate regional director or a designee at least 20 days in advance.


    (3) An individual may not use the range during any period reserved by an organized group.


    (4) An individual or an organized group using the range is responsible for keeping the area clean and free of debris, and may not discard, deposit, leave or throw litter except in approved refuse containers. Range users shall remove targets from range backboards when shooting is completed and prior to leaving the range.


    (5) The Commission is not responsible for anyone injured on the range. An individual using Commission- owned ranges does so at his own risk and assumes all responsibility for injuries to a person or property caused by or to him.


    (6) When more than one person is using the range, a range officer shall be designated.


    (7) An individual under 16 years of age may not use the range unless accompanied by a person 18 years of age or older.


    (8) The appropriate regional director or designee may close a range by posting signs to that effect. An individual or organized group may not use the range during a period when it is posted as closed.

    (b) Prohibited acts. At a rifle and handgun range located on land under Commission ownership, lease or jurisdiction, except when authorized by the appropriate regional director or a designee, it is unlawful to:

    (1) Discharge a firearm from any location on the range other than an established shooting station on the firing line.


    (2) Discharge a firearm at any target other than a paper target placed on a permanent target backboard mounted by the Commission. Users are prohibited from intentionally shooting at or damaging the frames or stands constructed by the Commission to mount permanent target backboards.


    (3) Discharge armor piercing, incendiary, explosive, tracer or multiple projectile ammunition.


    (4) Be intoxicated, use or possess an intoxicating beverage or controlled substance on the range.


    (5) Discharge an automatic firearm.


    (6) Load or discharge a firearm that contains more than six rounds of single projectile ammunition.


    (7) Shoot clay birds anywhere except areas designated by the Director by signs stating that clay bird shooting is permitted.


    (8) Load or discharge a firearm or use a range facility for any reason without possessing a valid Pennsylvania hunting or furtaker license or a Commission-issued range permit signed by its holder. This prohibition does not apply to persons 15 years of age or younger or up to one person accompanying another person in possession of a valid Pennsylvania hunting or furtaker license or a Commission-issued range permit.


    (9) Operate, manipulate or discharge a firearm in negligent disregard for the safety of other persons present at or nearby the range. This is specifically intended to include loading a firearm, operating or manipulating a loaded firearm, or discharging a firearm anywhere on the firing range while another person is downrange.


    (10) Use a Commission range in violation of any other requirement of this section or posted signage.

    (c) Range designation. The default designation for Commission ranges, regardless of length or size, is as a rifle range. The Commission may designate any range as a handgun only range by posting appropriate signage.

    What regulation is cited on the ticket?

    Unless you were observed DISCHARGING (§§b(1)) while down-range or violating local signage (§§b(10), I don't see the justification for the ticket.
    IANAL

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    USN Retired, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
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    Default Re: Got a fine shooting at SGL range

    I wonder what else.
    Owner Trigger Time LLc 01 FFL/NFA Saylorsburg, PA. Sales/Service/Transfers/Training
    NRA CRSO/Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun inst. BSA Rifle/Shotgun Merit badge counselor. US Navy Marksmanship Team Staff

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
    Posts
    3
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    0

    Default Re: Got a fine shooting at SGL range

    I have been shooting at the Tobyhanna SGL for close to four years and i have seen people carrying slung rifles downrange to check targets numerous times with and without Wardens present, not once was anyone given a fine for doing that. I was told by the previous Warden Abraham that if you don't feel comfortable leaving your rifle on the firing line while going to check targets , that it is not a problem if you carry the rifle slung and unloaded , magazine removed and action open down range to check / change targets . The new Warden Gruver has witnessed this many times and has not fined anyone for that as far as i know.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Snack Capital of the US, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
    158
    Rep Power
    5521017

    Default Re: Got a fine shooting at SGL range

    Two conclusions I can make from this:

    1. Go to a SGL range with a friend. (If you have a PA hunting license must he or she?)

    2. Join a private range.

    Why does everybody always have to make everything so complicated???

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
    Age
    53
    Posts
    11,842
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    21474864

    Default Re: Got a fine shooting at SGL range

    Quote Originally Posted by eagleclaw View Post
    If the District Justice where the citation is filed is within your voting district it may give you a small advantage. Sometimes District Judges will dismiss a small violation rather than find a voter in their voting district guilty. Secondly I suggest researching the section that you were wrote up for in the PA Game code which can be found online. Find out what are the elements of the violation. If the section says merely taking an uncased firearm down range or away from a designated firing station is illegal, then they have you. However if the section doesn't say that, then you might have a defense.
    I agree, but having photos of any/all rules posted at the site may be beneficial too. Sometimes statutes give these agencies the authority to promulgate "rules" and don't actually spell out those specifics within the empowering statute.
    Get your "Guns Save Lives" stickers today! PM for more info.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Nunya, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    721
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    21474841

    Default Re: Got a fine shooting at SGL range

    Quote Originally Posted by Hokkmike View Post
    Two conclusions I can make from this:

    1. Go to a SGL range with a friend. (If you have a PA hunting license must he or she?)

    2. Join a private range.

    Why does everybody always have to make everything so complicated???
    2.) Why should I have to pay hundreds of dollars of year to join a private range instead of the public one for $35, out of fear that some a-hole wannabe cop Game Warden wants to fabricate and "enforce" his own rules?

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
    Posts
    3,733
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    21474851

    Default Re: Got a fine shooting at SGL range

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeRabbit View Post
    2.) Why should I have to pay hundreds of dollars of year to join a private range instead of the public one for $35, out of fear that some a-hole wannabe cop Game Warden wants to fabricate and "enforce" his own rules?
    Ahole wanna be cop aside, in life, you get what you pay for.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Nunya, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    721
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    21474841

    Default Re: Got a fine shooting at SGL range

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    Ahole wanna be cop aside, in life, you get what you pay for.
    By that logic, I should never have to worry about tickets on the PA Turnpike

    A shakedown is a shakedown, and if OP is relaying the facts accurately, this is a shakedown.

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