AR57

[ExFlyinguy]

I couldn't find a previous thread for this

Looks pretty freakin awesome, but I need another caliber like I need another hole in my head.

I like that it fits standard lower and just ejects out the bottom through the mag well

[Ronin]

I couldn't find a previous thread for this

Looks pretty freakin awesome, but I need another caliber like I need another hole in my head. Never heard of them before, are they new?

I like that it fits standard lower and just ejects out the bottom through the mag well

Guess you didn't watch the video. These have been around for a good while. They were known to have problems back in the day, but supposedly they've improved the latest versions. The suppressed version Ian has is completely impractical because there are suppressor hosts out there that would run circles around 5.7x28mm (300BLK, hell even .45 ACP). It is a better option than a PS90 if you want AR controls. You're limited by the short rail on top, but any magnified red dot or prism optic is more than sufficient for 5.7. Running an LPVO or scope is out because, even if you could mount it, it would interfere with removing the mag. Speaking of mags, if you cut the top off an AR mag and remove the guts, it works as a brass catcher. Convenient for folks who aren't too busy not reloading.

PSA has the 16" version for sale now. They also have the 12" version, but it's out of stock.

[JaySmith]

5.7x28 blows it's load in a 10.5" barrel, there's no need to have anything longer than it, you won't see any increased velocity.

I'm of the belief that all guns should be as compact and light weight as practically possible. I love the p90 design, it's the most compact and efficient way to deliver 5.7 rounds. Having anything larger or heavier is a waste.

It's a neat concept, and I'd own one, but I can't see a practical application that a 5.56 rifle wouldn't be better suited for.

[ExFlyinguy]

Actually I was midway through it and it answered my question which is why I edited the op

[Ronin]

5.7x28 blows it's load in a 10.5" barrel, there's no need to have anything longer than it, you won't see any increased velocity.

I'm of the belief that all guns should be as compact and light weight as practically possible. I love the p90 design, it's the most compact and efficient way to deliver 5.7 rounds. Having anything larger or heavier is a waste.

It's a neat concept, and I'd own one, but I can't see a practical application that a 5.56 rifle wouldn't be better suited for.

We've gone over this before. 5.7x28 does most definitely have greater velocity from a 16" barrel than a 10.5" barrel. From Elite Ammunition's own site:

EA_S4.JPG

That extra 300 fps equals greater energy ft-lbs. Unless you intend to shoot subsonic 5.7x28, there is ZERO practical reason to have a semi-automatic PS90 SBR. Full auto P90 has its applications. For a civilian, an SBR PS90 just looks cool. Nothing wrong with it, just don't pretend it's anything more than that.

[JaySmith]

We've gone over this before. 5.7x28 does most definitely have greater velocity from a 16" barrel than a 10.5" barrel. From Elite Ammunition's own site:

EA_S4.JPG

That extra 300 fps equals greater energy ft-lbs. Unless you intend to shoot subsonic 5.7x28, there is ZERO practical reason to have a semi-automatic PS90 SBR. Full auto P90 has its applications. For a civilian, an SBR PS90 just looks cool. Nothing wrong with it, just don't pretend it's anything more than that.

That's EA ammo, that's not practical ammo for everyone to purchase, considering you can't just buy it. FN SS197SR/SS198LF doesn't have that. EA ammo shouldn't even be a consideration when buying a 5.7 gun for a number of reasons. One, it's $4/round, two, they do a run once or twice a year and limit you to one box per person. I carry the ruger 57 daily and it's loaded with EA S4 ammo, I have a few boxes, but it's not something that's easy to come by or even remotely affordable.

Plenty of reason to have a semi-auto ps90 sbr without subsonic. It's an excellent suppressor host, but even unsuppressed it's the ideal cqb gun for things that go bump in the night when you're turning through doorways and hallways. I don't want a 16" AR for that, and I REALLY dont' want a 10" AR for that. You will absolutely lose your hearing shooting any 5.56 in a hallway.

[Ronin]

That's EA ammo, that's not practical ammo for everyone to purchase, considering you can't just buy it. FN SS197SR/SS198LF doesn't have that. EA ammo shouldn't even be a consideration when buying a 5.7 gun for a number of reasons. One, it's $4/round, two, they do a run once or twice a year and limit you to one box per person. I carry the ruger 57 daily and it's loaded with EA S4 ammo, I have a few boxes, but it's not something that's easy to come by or even remotely affordable.

Plenty of reason to have a semi-auto ps90 sbr without subsonic. It's an excellent suppressor host, but even unsuppressed it's the ideal cqb gun for things that go bump in the night when you're turning through doorways and hallways. I don't want a 16" AR for that, and I REALLY dont' want a 10" AR for that. You will absolutely lose your hearing shooting any 5.56 in a hallway.

Everyone that intends to use a 5.7x28 gun for SD or HD should absolutely have EA or Vanguard Outfitters in mind, because that's the ammo you want to defend yourself. SS198 and SS190 are good, but they're not the best. I keep mags of SS198 loaded, but I have EA and VO as my go to stuff. The beauty of 5.7 is it's light recoiling and you can put many, many rounds down range very quickly and accurately. With the right ammo, it will go through light body armor. Many rounds on target makes up for the lower power, and FN and AE 5.7 is weaker than most 9mm. That's why a full auto P90 is effective. It's like stinging your target in bursts in the same spot over and over until they stop.

Have you shot a suppressed PS90 in an enclosed space with supersonic ammo? I have. It's loud as fuck. Unsuppressed it's even worse. Subsonic ammo out of suppressed PS90 is still loud...and weak. Especially out of an SBR. You want suppressed for indoors, get a .300 BLK or .45 ACP. Still, shooting a PS90 or an AR unsuppressed indoors is no guarantee of hearing loss. I have a buddy who is a former Navy SEAL. He said the worst firefight he was ever in was in a tunnel. He thought for sure he was going to be deaf afterwards. Thirty years later, he still has his hearing. I've fired .357 mag indoors without hearing protection when I was a teen. Decades later my hearing is only now starting to degrade.

[JaySmith]

Everyone that intends to use a 5.7x28 gun for SD or HD should absolutely have EA or Vanguard Outfitters in mind, because that's the ammo you want to defend yourself. SS198 and SS190 are good, but they're not the best. I keep mags of SS198 loaded, but I have EA and VO as my go to stuff. The beauty of 5.7 is it's light recoiling and you can put many, many rounds down range very quickly and accurately. With the right ammo, it will go through light body armor. Many rounds on target makes up for the lower power, and FN and AE 5.7 is weaker than most 9mm. That's why a full auto P90 is effective. It's like stinging your target in bursts in the same spot over and over until they stop.

Have you shot a suppressed PS90 in an enclosed space with supersonic ammo? I have. It's loud as fuck. Unsuppressed it's even worse. Subsonic ammo out of suppressed PS90 is still loud...and weak. Especially out of an SBR. You want suppressed for indoors, get a .300 BLK or .45 ACP. Still, shooting a PS90 or an AR unsuppressed indoors is no guarantee of hearing loss. I have a buddy who is a former Navy SEAL. He said the worst firefight he was ever in was in a tunnel. He thought for sure he was going to be deaf afterwards. Thirty years later, he still has his hearing. I've fired .357 mag indoors without hearing protection when I was a teen. Decades later my hearing is only now starting to degrade.

Yes, you should strive to obtain EA S4, but it's a bit difficult to visit the range and fire off 200 rounds when it would cost you $800. And as far as I know, vanguard is not currently producing 5.7. If I went out and bought a 5.7 gun right now, my only choice to get EA or VO ammo is gunbroker, and that's just not practical. I don't even have EA ammo in the p90 mags, it's all ss198lf because it's fast enough. I use ea s4 out of the ruger for that speed boost. But the point is, you can't rely on being able to have that. Especially considering the fact that you really should practice with your carry ammo. I shot 2 mags of my S4 from my ruger last month at the range and it cost me $160 in ammo. I don't do it often, but I want to do it often enough that I remember the feel.

It's all about breaking the 2200fps barrier, where the temporary wound cavity becomes the permanent wound cavity. If you look at typical handguns you have velocities of around 1200-1700fps for most ammo. The ss198lf is around 2100fps out of a handgun, which still isn't there yet. To get over that 2200fps barrier, you need EA S4 which is ~2500fps out of a pistol if you want to do rifle damage with a handgun. Velocity is key, it's why, with the same diameter projectile, .22lr, 5.7x28, and 5.56 do different damage. 5.7x28 ss198lf out of a 10" barrel is ~2600fps, and 5.56 is around 2600fps. The difference is 5.56 isn't done blowing it's load like ss198lf, so it can benefit from increased barrel length, where most obtainable 5.7x28 will be done.

And that's my main objective, getting above 2200fps, the tipping point where big damage is being done, and what separates rifles from handguns. So I'm fine with my p90 mags being filled with ss198lf and my ruger 57 being filled with ea s4.

And yes, I have shot a suppressed ps90 in enclosed space and it's infinitely more pleasant than shooting a suppressed ar15 in enclosed space. And I've done unsuppressed ps90 as well as unsuppressed ar15, enclosed, both with 10" barrels. I would take the ps90 every day of the week.

[Ronin]

Yes, you should strive to obtain EA S4, but it's a bit difficult to visit the range and fire off 200 rounds when it would cost you $800. And as far as I know, vanguard is not currently producing 5.7. If I went out and bought a 5.7 gun right now, my only choice to get EA or VO ammo is gunbroker, and that's just not practical. I don't even have EA ammo in the p90 mags, it's all ss198lf because it's fast enough. I use ea s4 out of the ruger for that speed boost. But the point is, you can't rely on being able to have that. Especially considering the fact that you really should practice with your carry ammo. I shot 2 mags of my S4 from my ruger last month at the range and it cost me $160 in ammo. I don't do it often, but I want to do it often enough that I remember the feel.

It's all about breaking the 2200fps barrier, where the temporary wound cavity becomes the permanent wound cavity. If you look at typical handguns you have velocities of around 1200-1700fps for most ammo. The ss198lf is around 2100fps out of a handgun, which still isn't there yet. To get over that 2200fps barrier, you need EA S4 which is ~2500fps out of a pistol if you want to do rifle damage with a handgun. Velocity is key, it's why, with the same diameter projectile, .22lr, 5.7x28, and 5.56 do different damage. 5.7x28 ss198lf out of a 10" barrel is ~2600fps, and 5.56 is around 2600fps. The difference is 5.56 isn't done blowing it's load like ss198lf, so it can benefit from increased barrel length, where most obtainable 5.7x28 will be done.

And that's my main objective, getting above 2200fps, the tipping point where big damage is being done, and what separates rifles from handguns. So I'm fine with my p90 mags being filled with ss198lf and my ruger 57 being filled with ea s4.

And yes, I have shot a suppressed ps90 in enclosed space and it's infinitely more pleasant than shooting a suppressed ar15 in enclosed space. And I've done unsuppressed ps90 as well as unsuppressed ar15, enclosed, both with 10" barrels. I would take the ps90 every day of the week.

Let's be honest, once you've established a baseline with your SD/HD ammo and your range ammo, there's not a lot of need to waste the good stuff at the range. There is next to no discernible difference in accuracy (up to a point) and recoil feel between 5.7 ammo types. As long as your gun cycles and hits where you want it to, you don't need to burn through hundreds of rounds of S4 or T6B. The up front cost is steep. Plinking doesn't have to be, though. Buy once. Cry once.

[aubie515]

A few years ago, I've owned everything 5.7. I had the 16" AR57 and it was cool, but I ended up selling it. Those uppers are designed for red dots and not true scopes.

The new "AR57" uppers are made by Panzer as AR57, sold the rights to Panzer.

A couple of years ago, I decided I wanted the AR57 12.5" barrel as I thought it would be neat to use a binary trigger with the upper. I found out prior to buying the 12.5" upper that the binary trigger wouldn't work with the upper, so I decided not to make the purchase.

I read all of these pro/con on the 5.7. My opinion is that, people will not want to be shot with one...I don't care if you were shot with a 10" or a 16". Go take a look at what happened at the Ft. Hood shooting and that guy wasn't even using the best 5.7ammo that was available, so come to your own conclusions.