Pennsylvania lawmakers propose ID law to purchase ammunition

[steve_010]

Then we rely on online friends to help the way I do now. I “middle man” for people on forums in New Jersey, New York, California, etc. They contact me, order whatever and have it sent to me, Hollow Point ammunition, High Capacity ammunition, 80% Lowers, Flash Hiders, etc. and I relabel & send it to them. I have many contacts who would gladly do this. That is it… we need to rely on each other’s

What's high capacity ammunition?

[bogey1]

That*s why ya just don*t pay attention to their illegal laws anymore. I carry what I want, where I want. It*s concealed, so they have no idea. Hell, I don*t pay attention to the unconstitutional *AFT* laws. Think I*m going to worry about Illegal Pa laws?? And I have a sign on my door that says, *All Government Agents trying to enforce Unconstitutional Laws are trespassing & will be treated as hostile. Failure to leave will result in IMMEDIATE TERMINATION!*

As for ammunition, I get most of mine online anyway.

This^^^^

[claudel]

ID to buy ammo, but not to cast a ballot?

I suppose they are crafty enough to do what they can to insure their continued existence...

[DavidH]

What's high capacity ammunition?

Oh, I’m glad you caught that. No.. sorry, that’s my bad. There’s no such thing. Meant MAGAZINE, but had ammunition tyed twice and backspaced incorrectly. Just a typo. Sorry it had you confused, but again, thank you for saying something regardless. I like fixing my typos when I’ve missed them.

[John_Wick]

That*s why ya just don*t pay attention to their illegal laws anymore. I carry what I want, where I want. It*s concealed, so they have no idea. Hell, I don*t pay attention to the unconstitutional *AFT* laws. Think I*m going to worry about Illegal Pa laws?? And I have a sign on my door that says, *All Government Agents trying to enforce Unconstitutional Laws are trespassing & will be treated as hostile. Failure to leave will result in IMMEDIATE TERMINATION!*

Good luck with all of that. You've essentially assured them an easy conviction and yourself a long sentence should anything go down. It's your life though. I hope you live alone.

Then we rely on online friends to help- the way I do now. I *middle man* for people on forums in New Jersey, New York, California, etc. They contact me, order whatever and have it sent to me, Hollow Point ammunition, High Capacity magazines, 80% Lowers, Flash Hiders, etc. and I relabel & send it to them.

Your lawyer would advise you not to openly admit to committing felonies online where your words will live in perpetuity.

(We really need a facepalm emoji. It was invented for posts like this.)

[Qind]

Do not need to show a valid I.D to vote but we put this legislation up????
Anyone else tired of all this BS

[Krichardson]

Do not need to show a valid I.D to vote but we put this legislation up????
Anyone else tired of all this BS

Yes....I sure am.

[RockIsland]

Now they want to ID ammo.


Proposed Pennsylvania Bill Would Require Serialized Ammo, Encoded Ammo Database

by MattyP on March 23, 2023

(Photo: Remington Ammo)

Pennsylvania House Bill 586 was introduced on March 20, 2023. It proposes more firearm regulation via ammunition, and places increased responsibilities and punishments on ammunition manufacturers, FFL and SOT dealers, and every citizen who currently owns ammunition.

Introduced by 12 representatives, including Representative Stephen Kinsey, who is listed as the prime sponsor, the Bill would essentially empower the Commissioner of Pennsylvania State Police and the Secretary of Revenue to enforce the new rules and collect a tax on ammunition to fund the changes.

Here*s an outline of what the Bill includes. I will touch on each topic, so keep reading.

• All ammunition sold in Pennsylvania would be encoded with multiple serial numbers
• A requirement for anyone possessing non-encoded ammo to dispose of it by 1/1/24
• The creation of an *encoded ammunition database*
• Imposing penalties for violators who do not comply
• A new per-bullet tax to pay for the encoded ammunition database

Serialized Ammunition

Yes, the concept is hard to grasp, but that is exactly what House Bill 586 is trying to do. According to the bill, *a manufacturer shall encode ammunition provided for retail sale for regulated firearms in a manner that the commissioner establishes.*


The manner established references one unique serial number used in three different locations. The serial number would be located at the base of each bullet, on the inside of each cartridge casing, and on the outside of each box of ammunition.

*The challenges in producing this serialized, encoded ammunition are many, the main one being that production of a single round that typically happens in seconds would turn into minutes,* said Riley Bowman, Vice President of ConcealedCarry.com. *Producers are already struggling to keep up with demand. This bill would bring production to a standstill which would not only affect gun owners as far as cost, but would negatively impact ammunition produced for law enforcement* even though they are exempted from this bill.*

The reason for serialization?

*Each serial number is encoded in such a manner that it is highly likely to permit identification after ammunition discharge and bullet impact,* he added

*While the claim is that this bill would help law enforcement, it would actually end up hurting their own ability to obtain ammunition for their use, both for defensive use but also training,* Bowman continued. *This could negatively affect law enforcement officer performance and safety.*

The Duty of the Owner

Even more troubling, the Bill states that anyone who owns ammunition that is not serialized needs to *dispose* of it on or before January 1, 2024. Aside from other obvious issues, like bullet integrity post impact, collected casings, etc., the Bill fails to mention how would this impact hand-loaded ammo.

Nationally, ammunition *serialization* received a lot of attention back in 2008, when versions of the *Ammunition Accountability Act* appeared in 18 state legislatures. None of these bills passed.

Encoded Ammunition Database

This is exactly what it sounds like*there will be a comprehensive record of all ammunition sold/purchased, containing details from the manufacturer, seller and purchaser.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), the trade organization for the shooting sports industry, touched on some of the problems associated with an agenda like this in a report published in February 2021.

James J. Fotis, Executive Director of the Law Enforcement Alliance of America, went so far as to say, *If passed, this legislation will certainly play out like a horror flick on public safety and law enforcement in California.*

The Manufacturer*s Portion

The manufacturer would provide their name and address, the serial numbers found on the bullet, casing, and box, and any other *information* that the commissioner considers necessary. The details are still being worked out, but the word *information* currently casts a wide umbrella. And furthermore, this poses a serious self-defense concern.

*Self-defense is a fundamental human right, available to all regardless of economic status,* Bowman said. *Pennsylvania House Bill 586 would fundamentally strip away from everyone*except for the most wealthy among us*the right to self-defense as the logistical challenges of producing ammunition using this unproven technology would raise the price of self-defense ammunition far above what most people can afford.*

Whenever a transaction is made, the purchaser would be required to provide the seller with detailed personal information.
The required information would include:

• The date of each ammunition purchase
• The name and date of birth of each purchaser of ammunition
• The driver*s license number of the purchaser or other number issued to the purchaser by the Federal Government or the State of Pennsylvania
• The serial numbers of all ammunition for regulated firearms bought by the purchaser
• Any other information that the commissioner considers necessary

In addition, the seller would then be required to give that information to the commissioner for the *encoded ammunition database,* and maintain a copy of all records submitted to the commissioner for at least three years after the date of sale.

Violations

The proposed Bill also outlines punishments for potential violators.

• A seller that doesn*t provide the information above would be committing a misdemeanor of the third degree.
• A person who willfully destroys or otherwise renders unreadable the information encoded on ammunition required under this section commits a misdemeanor of the third degree.
• A manufacturer that violates this section is subject to a civil fine to be imposed by the commissioner not to exceedi) One thousand dollars for a first violation.(ii) Two thousand dollars for a second violation.(iii) Three thousand dollars for a third or subsequent violation.

Funding the Database

The encoded ammunition database shall be funded by the encoded ammunition database tax. The Bill reads, *in addition to any other tax imposed under the law, a tax of five cents per round of ammunition is imposed on the sale at retail or use of encoded ammunition in this Commonwealth.*

Despite the repeated failures of ammunition serialization attempts in the past, anti-2A advocates persist in their efforts because they are aware that a de facto ban on ammunition would effectively render us unable to exercise our Second Amendment rights.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/p...WeekSimplified

[akley88]

o that would be a smart move to destroy peoples current stores of ammo and make reloading possibly illegal.

[HanzMcFeely]

They can pound sand up their hoohaws. And gravel too. Maybe even asbestos for the extra cancer-y goodness they deserve.

Sounds like CA microstamping on steroids good luck with that…

I especially enjoyed reading the part about tying ammo purchases to drivers license numbers: to be fair, there are places that already do that (scanning ID to purchase ammo) ie walmart, and other large retailers.