Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 30 of 30
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Holland, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Posts
    444
    Rep Power
    12243510

    Default Re: People Under Domestic Violence Restraining Orders Retain Gun Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by ImminentDanger View Post
    Supreme Court upholds gun ban for those under domestic violence restraining orders
    Samuel Chamberlain - June 21, 2024
    https://nypost.com/2024/06/21/us-new...aining-orders/



    Anyone have a link to the actual ruling?
    Was there any directives to make sure that due process rights are protected when restraining orders are issued?

    ...
    Is this what you are looking for?

    https://prod-i.a.dj.com/public/resou...ahimi_8o6b.pdf

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    4,286
    Rep Power
    21474851

    Default Re: People Under Domestic Violence Restraining Orders Retain Gun Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by ImminentDanger View Post
    AND THOSE FALSELY ACCUSED!
    Yup. Them too.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    ...
    (York County)
    Posts
    1,906
    Rep Power
    21474853

    Default Re: People Under Domestic Violence Restraining Orders Retain Gun Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by wew3 View Post
    YES - Thank You ----

    While standing alone, but interpreting the meaning of the Bruen case,
    the dissent opinion of Justice Thomas is a must read.

    ...

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Glenmoore, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Age
    65
    Posts
    3,650
    Rep Power
    21474855

    Default Re: People Under Domestic Violence Restraining Orders Retain Gun Rights

    Sadly, the women who would be 'protected' by this ruling will still be killed by their men who wish them harm.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    ...
    (York County)
    Posts
    1,906
    Rep Power
    21474853

    Default Re: People Under Domestic Violence Restraining Orders Retain Gun Rights

    Supreme Court gun precedent upheld despite Thomas dissent
    By Kaelan Deese - June 21, 2024
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...homas-dissent/

    The 2022 Supreme Court precedent that bolstered Second Amendment rights for gun owners was affirmed on Friday despite a testy dissent from Justice Clarence Thomas in a ruling that upheld a gun ban for domestic violence offenders.

    Thomas was the lone dissenter from an 8-1 majority opinion in United States v. Rahimi, which upheld a federal gun ban for people under domestic violence restraining orders * a decision that pleased the Biden administration and gun control groups. But despite the victory in favor of the government*s position, legal and firearms experts say the justice*s 2022 decision in a landmark gun case known as Bruen was left unscathed.

    When Thomas authored the 2022 New York Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen decision, a 6-3 ruling set forth a new test for courts requiring gun regulations to conform with the nation*s history and tradition of firearm regulation. Chief Justice John Roberts and seven justices found that the domestic abuser gun statute could be likened to a tradition of disarming people who pose risks to public safety.

    However, the Bruen author and lone dissenter in Rahimi said the majority failed to "point to a single historical law revoking a citizen*s Second Amendment right based on possible interpersonal violence."

    "The question is whether the Government can strip the Second Amendment right of anyone subject to a protective order * even if he has never been accused or convicted of a crime. It cannot," Thomas responded in his 32-page dissent, which was twice as long as the majority opinion written by Roberts.

    Despite Thomas*s grueling dissent, Roberts*s emphasis of the "narrow" ruling in the Rahimi case overall preserved the relatively new Bruen test rather than diminishing it.

    "Rather, we conclude only this: An individual found by a court to pose a credible threat to the
    physical safety of another may be temporarily disarmed consistent with the Second Amendment," Roberts wrote.

    Cody Wisniewski, senior attorney for constitutional litigation with Firearms Policy Coalition, told the Washington Examiner the majority*s decision "underscores the fact that it is clear that individuals, peaceable individuals, have a natural, fundamental, and unalienable right to self-defense, which includes the keeping and bearing of arms."

    Plaintiff Zackey Rahimi, a Texas-based defendant, was placed under a restraining order after he allegedly dragged his girlfriend, with whom he has a child, in a parking lot and attempted to shoot a witness. He later allegedly partook in a series of five shootings and was indicted on the gun charge after police searched his home and found a rifle and a pistol.

    Wisniewski said the majority was "so focused on the things that Rahimi did," which distanced the defendant from other peaceable gun owners, "that it is understood that peaceable people have that natural right and that constitutionally protected right to self-defense." He also said the decision is another reaffirming or "Version 3" of the 2008 ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller, which upheld individual rights to self-defense within the home.

    The Justice Department argued in court that the challenged law in the case, 922(g)(8), was supported by analogues to surety and affray laws of the past, which included punishment for people who may engage in cruel or inhumane acts against their marital partners.

    But Thomas wrote that "neither is a compelling historical analogue," arguing that the majority didn*t consider "vital differences" when it reached the opposite conclusion in favor of the federal government.

    The outcome of Rahimi provided clarity on how the framework established in Bruen applies to modern gun control measures, with Roberts suggesting that the test set in Bruen is "not meant to suggest a law trapped in amber."

    "The Second Amendment permits more than just those regulations identical to ones that could be found in 1791," Roberts said. Without directly undercutting Thomas*s landmark majority opinion from two years ago, the chief justice emphasized that the case explained "a challenged regulation that does not precisely match its historical precursors *still may be analogous enough to pass constitutional muster.*"

    Justice Sonia Sotomayor, an appointee of former President Barack Obama, critiqued Thomas*s dissent as "the strictest possible interpretation of Bruen."

    "It picks off the Government*s historical sources one by one, viewing any basis for distinction as fatal," Sotomayor wrote in her concurrence, which was joined by Obama-appointed Justice Elena Kagan.

    Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, the newest member of the court who was appointed by President Joe Biden, chastised the Bruen precedent as a test that "appears to be creating chaos" in lower courts as different judges formulate inconsistent decisions about the constitutionality of gun laws.

    "I concur in today*s decision applying Bruen. But, in my view, the Court should also be mindful of how its legal standards are actually playing out in real life," Jackson warned.

    Meanwhile, other Republican appointees, including Justice Brett Kavanaugh, stressed their reasoning for joining the majority in separate concurrences.

    "Deciding constitutional cases in a still-developing area of this Court*s jurisprudence can sometimes be difficult," Kavanaugh wrote. "But that is not a permission slip for a judge to let constitutional analysis morph into policy preferences under the guise of a balancing test that churns out the judge*s own policy beliefs."

    Justice Amy Coney Barrett suggested that lower courts have been using too narrow a "level-of-generality" to view gun laws, adding that "imposing a test that demands overly specific analogues has serious problems."

    "To name two: It forces 21st-century regulations to follow late-18th-century policy choices, giving us *a law trapped in amber.* And it assumes that founding-era legislatures maximally exercised their power to regulate, thereby adopting a *use it or lose it* view of legislative authority," Barrett wrote. "Such assumptions are flawed, and originalism does not require them."

    Mark W. Smith, a constitutional attorney, professor of law, and the host of the Four Boxes Diner Second Amendment channel on YouTube, told the Washington Examiner he believes the Second Amendment community should be "pleased" with the narrow holding because the "Bruen methodology survived Merrick Garland*s attempt to destroy it with a case involving an allegedly very bad dude with bad facts."

    Cato Institute Senior Vice President for Legal Studies Clark Neily suggested the decision does nothing to weaken the Bruen precedent.

    Neily also emphasized that while Thomas*s point is "true" that there were no laws categorically disarming perpetrators of domestic violence at the time of the founding, the majority explained that the historical tradition test "requires only that the challenged law be sufficiently analogous to a founding-era restriction on guns * not that it be identical."

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    ...
    (York County)
    Posts
    1,906
    Rep Power
    21474853

    Default Re: People Under Domestic Violence Restraining Orders Retain Gun Rights

    Supreme Court gun precedent upheld despite Thomas dissent
    By Kaelan Deese - June 21, 2024
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...homas-dissent/

    The 2022 Supreme Court precedent that bolstered Second Amendment rights for gun owners was affirmed on Friday despite a testy dissent from Justice Clarence Thomas in a ruling that upheld a gun ban for domestic violence offenders.

    Thomas was the lone dissenter from an 8-1 majority opinion in United States v. Rahimi, which upheld a federal gun ban for people under domestic violence restraining orders ó a decision that pleased the Biden administration and gun control groups. But despite the victory in favor of the governmentís position, legal and firearms experts say the justiceís 2022 decision in a landmark gun case known as Bruen was left unscathed.

    When Thomas authored the 2022 New York Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen decision, a 6-3 ruling set forth a new test for courts requiring gun regulations to conform with the nationís history and tradition of firearm regulation. Chief Justice John Roberts and seven justices found that the domestic abuser gun statute could be likened to a tradition of disarming people who pose risks to public safety.

    However, the Bruen author and lone dissenter in Rahimi said the majority failed to "point to a single historical law revoking a citizenís Second Amendment right based on possible interpersonal violence."

    "The question is whether the Government can strip the Second Amendment right of anyone subject to a protective order ó even if he has never been accused or convicted of a crime. It cannot," Thomas responded in his 32-page dissent, which was twice as long as the majority opinion written by Roberts.

    Despite Thomasís grueling dissent, Robertsís emphasis of the "narrow" ruling in the Rahimi case overall preserved the relatively new Bruen test rather than diminishing it.

    "Rather, we conclude only this: An individual found by a court to pose a credible threat to the
    physical safety of another may be temporarily disarmed consistent with the Second Amendment," Roberts wrote.

    Cody Wisniewski, senior attorney for constitutional litigation with Firearms Policy Coalition, told the Washington Examiner the majorityís decision "underscores the fact that it is clear that individuals, peaceable individuals, have a natural, fundamental, and unalienable right to self-defense, which includes the keeping and bearing of arms."

    Plaintiff Zackey Rahimi, a Texas-based defendant, was placed under a restraining order after he allegedly dragged his girlfriend, with whom he has a child, in a parking lot and attempted to shoot a witness. He later allegedly partook in a series of five shootings and was indicted on the gun charge after police searched his home and found a rifle and a pistol.

    Wisniewski said the majority was "so focused on the things that Rahimi did," which distanced the defendant from other peaceable gun owners, "that it is understood that peaceable people have that natural right and that constitutionally protected right to self-defense." He also said the decision is another reaffirming or "Version 3" of the 2008 ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller, which upheld individual rights to self-defense within the home.

    The Justice Department argued in court that the challenged law in the case, 922(g)(8), was supported by analogues to surety and affray laws of the past, which included punishment for people who may engage in cruel or inhumane acts against their marital partners.

    But Thomas wrote that "neither is a compelling historical analogue," arguing that the majority didnít consider "vital differences" when it reached the opposite conclusion in favor of the federal government.

    The outcome of Rahimi provided clarity on how the framework established in Bruen applies to modern gun control measures, with Roberts suggesting that the test set in Bruen is "not meant to suggest a law trapped in amber."

    "The Second Amendment permits more than just those regulations identical to ones that could be found in 1791," Roberts said. Without directly undercutting Thomasís landmark majority opinion from two years ago, the chief justice emphasized that the case explained "a challenged regulation that does not precisely match its historical precursors Ďstill may be analogous enough to pass constitutional muster.í"

    Justice Sonia Sotomayor, an appointee of former President Barack Obama, critiqued Thomasís dissent as "the strictest possible interpretation of Bruen."

    "It picks off the Governmentís historical sources one by one, viewing any basis for distinction as fatal," Sotomayor wrote in her concurrence, which was joined by Obama-appointed Justice Elena Kagan.

    Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, the newest member of the court who was appointed by President Joe Biden, chastised the Bruen precedent as a test that "appears to be creating chaos" in lower courts as different judges formulate inconsistent decisions about the constitutionality of gun laws.

    "I concur in todayís decision applying Bruen. But, in my view, the Court should also be mindful of how its legal standards are actually playing out in real life," Jackson warned.

    Meanwhile, other Republican appointees, including Justice Brett Kavanaugh, stressed their reasoning for joining the majority in separate concurrences.

    "Deciding constitutional cases in a still-developing area of this Courtís jurisprudence can sometimes be difficult," Kavanaugh wrote. "But that is not a permission slip for a judge to let constitutional analysis morph into policy preferences under the guise of a balancing test that churns out the judgeís own policy beliefs."

    Justice Amy Coney Barrett suggested that lower courts have been using too narrow a "level-of-generality" to view gun laws, adding that "imposing a test that demands overly specific analogues has serious problems."

    "To name two: It forces 21st-century regulations to follow late-18th-century policy choices, giving us Ďa law trapped in amber.í And it assumes that founding-era legislatures maximally exercised their power to regulate, thereby adopting a Ďuse it or lose ití view of legislative authority," Barrett wrote. "Such assumptions are flawed, and originalism does not require them."

    Mark W. Smith, a constitutional attorney, professor of law, and the host of the Four Boxes Diner Second Amendment channel on YouTube, told the Washington Examiner he believes the Second Amendment community should be "pleased" with the narrow holding because the "Bruen methodology survived Merrick Garlandís attempt to destroy it with a case involving an allegedly very bad dude with bad facts."

    Cato Institute Senior Vice President for Legal Studies Clark Neily suggested the decision does nothing to weaken the Bruen precedent.

    Neily also emphasized that while Thomasís point is "true" that there were no laws categorically disarming perpetrators of domestic violence at the time of the founding, the majority explained that the historical tradition test "requires only that the challenged law be sufficiently analogous to a founding-era restriction on guns ó not that it be identical."
    Rather, we conclude only this: An individual found by a court to pose a credible threat to the
    physical safety of another may be temporarily disarmed consistent with the Second Amendment," Roberts wrote.
    This from a justice who was willing to say the Judiciary IS NOT politically reflective of the politicians who appointed them...

    The problem of today's society is the willingness to LIE & ACT DISINGENUOUSLY, including related to the most important issues of our lives!

    ...

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Ercildoun, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    5,596
    Rep Power
    21474853

    Default Re: People Under Domestic Violence Restraining Orders Retain Gun Rights

    Restraining orders instigated by the woman's divorce lawyers are just another tool in that lawyer's tool box to extort the man for everything he's got.
    Corruption is the default behavior of government officials. JPC

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2024
    Location
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    (Westmoreland County)
    Posts
    18
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: People Under Domestic Violence Restraining Orders Retain Gun Rights

    I wonder what the future ramifications will be on this

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    ...
    (York County)
    Posts
    1,906
    Rep Power
    21474853

    Default Re: People Under Domestic Violence Restraining Orders Retain Gun Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Monie5115 View Post
    I wonder what the future ramifications will be on this
    You can bet that the leftist liberals will continue their 'destructive dictionary distortions' by twisting the term 'Dangerous' to satisfy any circumstance they want - finding new ways to disarm citizens and destroy the intent of the 2nd Amendment.

    This USSC ruling has helped the left by also mincing meanings into a mishmash in order to make 'denying your 2A rights' equivalent to 'putting up a surety bond' against 'possible' future misconduct and making 'you can appeal' equal to 'prior due process'. These laws are based on 'Guilty until proven Innocent'.

    This headline proves my point - 'Supreme Court rules dangerous people can be disarmed temporarily under Second Amendment'. PFAs are regularly issued without 'due process' or 'due diligence' in determining whether the true & total circumstances (or persons) are 'dangerous'.

    ...

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    ...
    (York County)
    Posts
    1,906
    Rep Power
    21474853

    Default Re: People Under Domestic Violence Restraining Orders Retain Gun Rights

    Tidal wave of gun cases heading toward the Supreme Court after Rahimi ruling
    By Stephen Dinan and Alex Swoyer - June 23, 2024
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...d-supreme-cou/

    Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., writing the key opinion in Friday's ruling, said Bruen doesn't require an exact analogy. He said the principles of the founders - that some people are dangerous enough to lose their gun rights - are enough to cover Rahimi's case.

    "Since the founding, our nation's firearm laws have included provisions preventing individuals who threaten physical harm to others from misusing firearms. As applied to the facts of this case, Section 922(g)(8) fits comfortably within this tradition," the chief justice said in upholding the federal law.

    Justice Clarence Thomas, who wrote the Bruen decision, dissented from the ruling. He said history has no tradition of disarming people without a criminal record.

    "Thus, the question before us is not whether Rahimi and others like him can be disarmed consistent with the Second Amendment," Justice Thomas wrote. "Instead, the question is whether the Government can strip the Second Amendment right of anyone subject to a protective order - even if he has never been accused or convicted of a crime. It cannot."

    Legal scholars said the ruling's result is that people deemed credible physical threats can lose their guns, at least temporarily, even if without a court conviction. Future cases will have to determine who qualifies as a danger.

    Scholars described the ruling as somewhat of a do-over of Bruen, with the justices grappling with the implications of their earlier case.
    ...

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Similar Threads

  1. Restraining Orders
    By Photon Guy in forum General
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: May 2nd, 2018, 02:44 PM
  2. Gun Violence Restraining Order
    By coppery in forum Pennsylvania
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: March 1st, 2018, 08:38 PM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: February 19th, 2018, 02:33 PM
  4. Replies: 29
    Last Post: October 5th, 2014, 12:00 AM
  5. No such thing as restraining orders in PA.
    By bigbear in forum General
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: October 6th, 2008, 09:58 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •