ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

[James PA]

Most are not getting it, the transfers will not be done at that 88 day mark which will result in an automatic denial, silencer transfers that they told us would be done at 90 days are now at 6 to 9 months, I have an actual sbr transfer sitting at 2 1/2 months right now, the guy just picked up his can, that was 8 months. What the ATF is not telling us is what is going to be that enforcement that will occur at 88 days if you don't have a stamp. The real question is do you trust that the ATF is not going to Fuck you , it's a simple question. I have SBR's, pistol braces ,silencers. They have lured folks in with free tax stamps, I hope they don't fuck you! 40 million plus brace transfers won't happen in 120 days, if you feel save that you filed it and believe that they won't fuck you okay go for it. Here's another question will you get you stamp in 1 year, 5 years ten years ? I am sure it won't be here in thirty days. I will will most likely re-configure some guns right now to avoid the mess that the antique efile system can't handle.

I think as long as you efile form 1 and get in their system they won't care even if its 10years before the stamp arrives. Hell, you could even say you sold the gun in that time, and give the stamp to that guy? How will they handle that ?

[EFK]

Can you sell a SBR face to face in PA without going through channels? I don't believe so but could be wrong. It's my understanding that as of the date of rule publication in the Fed register (not sure what that date is) these braced pistols are "officially" all SBR. I would think saying you sold it after applying for registration might be problematic.

This whole thing really is the dictionary definition of SHIT SHOW.

[davem]

[IMG=CONFIG]163612[/IMG]

That is awesome

[arjohnson]

Can you sell a SBR face to face in PA without going through channels? I don't believe so but could be wrong. It's my understanding that as of the date of rule publication in the Fed register (not sure what that date is) these braced pistols are "officially" all SBR. I would think saying you sold it after applying for registration might be problematic.

This whole thing really is the dictionary definition of SHIT SHOW.

Good question. I think you can but not 100% sure. It would obviously still have to go through the atf process. I inquired about this years ago but can*t remember the details.

[JoshIronshaft]

I just know we could have cartel style militia with minigun tacticals within weeks of passing making new machine guns legal. And again, I think you need real training for full auto. Real real training for that cannon too. Fuck that, can I grab a LAW?

Cause with the wealth inequality in this country that might be the "eat the rich". That M2 will take out all the cash security guards, and likely the cops who show up if they have the chance. You gonna be the good guy with the gun at the local store to shoot the guy with the M2 50 cal? I've watched them refill the ATMs at the WAWA, and each gets $60k, + whatever they remove that wasn't used that week. Thats a quarter million dollar robbery easy. Give me 3 guys and we could do it without even my MPX or AR. Of course I would never do that cause I'm not gonna take the chance of having to harm or worse murder someone, or get in that life, but I watch them do it almost weekly. Some Wawa have 4 ATMs!

I would disagree on most if not all of your points.

Require special training for machineguns? You dont need that now to buy them. You just need the coin. Most pedestrians can figure out a machine gun within a couple magazines.

M2s being used in crimes? Unlikely. An M2 parts kit is about $8k-$10k, semi guns are touching $15k, so the lack of parts kits and built guns will still keep them unobtainable for the majority. Not to mention, you have to have a brain to set up and M2 and safely fire it. The M2 can easily kill in both directions if you let it.

Same for artillery, which you can currently own or Form 1 manufacture. There is barely anything on the market to buy. The FEL required to buy powder and load rounds is another hurdle. Trust me, I know.

If you made it legal to manufacture transferable machineguns the cost of parts would go absolutely insane. Most people would register receivers but spend a long time looking out the window waiting for cheap conversion parts to show up.

[PickingPA]

ATF sets up a booth a SHOT show? Just to rub people’s noses in it, or what?

I thought their routine was to cruise the parking lot, snapping photos of license plates.

[John_Wick]

Can you sell a SBR face to face in PA without going through channels? I don't believe so but could be wrong. It's my understanding that as of the date of rule publication in the Fed register (not sure what that date is) these braced pistols are "officially" all SBR. I would think saying you sold it after applying for registration might be problematic.

Any transfer between individuals has to go through an FFL licensed to process NFA transfers. And yes, once the final rule is published in the Federal Register they are SBRs and subject to all the SBR laws/rules.

Most are not getting it, the transfers will not be done at that 88 day mark which will result in an automatic denial, silencer transfers that they told us would be done at 90 days are now at 6 to 9 months, I have an actual sbr transfer sitting at 2 1/2 months right now, the guy just picked up his can, that was 8 months. What the ATF is not telling us is what is going to be that enforcement that will occur at 88 days if you don't have a stamp. The real question is do you trust that the ATF is not going to Fuck you , it's a simple question. I have SBR's, pistol braces ,silencers. They have lured folks in with free tax stamps, I hope they don't fuck you! 40 million plus brace transfers won't happen in 120 days, if you feel save that you filed it and believe that they won't fuck you okay go for it. Here's another question will you get you stamp in 1 year, 5 years ten years ? I am sure it won't be here in thirty days. I will will most likely re-configure some guns right now to avoid the mess that the antique efile system can't handle.

There is no automatic denial that occurs 88 days after the application is filed. That's incorrect information that people keep parroting. As I posted above:

The 88-day clock doesn't start unless and until the NICS check results in a "delay" status, which is typically the result of some type of prohibition or uncertainty as to who the applicant is (e.g. there might be 2 guys with the same name and the system needs a human to figure out who is applying). Your application could sit for 2 years before the NICS is even run. Here's where the 88 days actually came from:

Over 70 percent of NICS transactions handled by the FBI result in no descriptive matches or hits to the potential transferee against information contained in the three national databases. In these instances, the FFL is advised to proceed with the transfer. If, however, there are any potentially prohibiting records returned, the FBI must undertake a manual review to determine if the record demonstrates a prohibition to firearms possession. There are three possible outcomes from this review: proceed (i.e., the record does not establish a prohibition and the transaction can proceed), deny (i.e., the record demonstrates a firearms prohibition), or delay. A delay response indicates the information supplied by the prospective firearm transferee has matched a record searched by the NICS and requires additional research before a final determination can be made. Following a delay decision, if the transaction is not resolved within the allowed three-business-day time frame, it is at the discretion of the FFL whether to transfer the firearm. However, the FBI Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Division NICS Program continues to work on the case in an effort to resolve it. When additional information is required on a matching record but cannot be found, the transaction remains open until either the information is provided or 88 days have passed. If prohibiting information is provided following the passage of the three-business-day time frame, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) is notified for potential retrieval of the firearm. If 88 days pass, then the transaction is purged from the NICS, as required by federal regulation 28 CFR 25.9(b)(ii).

[arjohnson]

Any transfer between individuals has to go through an FFL licensed to process NFA transfers. And yes, once the final rule is published in the Federal Register they are SBRs and subject to all the SBR laws/rules.



There is no automatic denial that occurs 88 days after the application is filed. That's incorrect information that people keep parroting. As I posted above:

It*s 88 days once the background check is performed. If it doesn*t come back approved they deny.

[esh21167]

I think as long as you efile form 1 and get in their system they won't care even if its 10years before the stamp arrives. Hell, you could even say you sold the gun in that time, and give the stamp to that guy? How will they handle that ?

Bet $250k and 10 years in Club Fed on that?

Can you sell a SBR face to face in PA without going through channels? I don't believe so but could be wrong. It's my understanding that as of the date of rule publication in the Fed register (not sure what that date is) these braced pistols are "officially" all SBR. I would think saying you sold it after applying for registration might be problematic.

This whole thing really is the dictionary definition of SHIT SHOW.

Good question. I think you can but not 100% sure. It would obviously still have to go through the atf process. I inquired about this years ago but can*t remember the details.

Any transfer between individuals has to go through an FFL licensed to process NFA transfers. And yes, once the final rule is published in the Federal Register they are SBRs and subject to all the SBR laws/rules.


There is no automatic denial that occurs 88 days after the application is filed. That's incorrect information that people keep parroting. As I posted above:

I bought a used suppressor with no dealer involved. The seller and I wrote up a simple contract, completed the Form 4, and I filed it myself.

I guess the GOA lawyer that asked the ATF agent at SHOT must have been lying about the 88 days? He said he asked the agent about the 88 days and she confirmed that. He then asked what would happen after that time and the agent told him they would pursue enforcement. Surely the ATF sent representation to SHOT that would be able to answer these questions because it's the hottest topic in the gun world right now. Did she just make it up?

His video has been posted in this thread and it's all over the web.

[John_Wick]

I guess the GOA lawyer that asked the ATF agent at SHOT must have been lying about the 88 days? He said he asked the agent about the 88 days and she confirmed that. He then asked what would happen after that time and the agent told him they would pursue enforcement. Surely the ATF sent representation to SHOT that would be able to answer these questions because it's the hottest topic in the gun world right now. Did she just make it up?

His video has been posted in this thread and it's all over the web.

I don't believe anyone was lying, but rather the information was simply misunderstood. That incorrect information then spread from the initial source and is now plastered all over. It is no more true after 10,000 post it than it is after 1 person posted it though. If there was any truth to the original information, absolutely no one would have a suppressor since I don't think one of those applications has ever been processed in 88 days. I have posted the correct info in the post you partially quoted - along with a quote directly from the FBI's website - and it's there if you want it.