Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #391
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    Default Re: ATF Just Dropped Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by ExFlyinguy View Post
    What are you working on? I've never seen that part.
    it replaces the buffertube when you are using a bufferless BCG

  2. #392
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    Default Re: ATF Just Dropped Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by ExFlyinguy View Post
    Below is the "pistol tube" that mine came with from the store. I had bought the original SB15 which just slid over the pistol tube. I think any tube that has a rib on it for multi-position shoulder stock length is going to be a no-no. The diameter of my pistol tube is large enough that a stock won't slide on to it.
    Are we clear on if this would actually fly now? From my readying anything with a buffer tube at all and certainly anything with a tube+extra material of some kind is now an SBR since they specifically give no guidance on the amount of "surface area" that would get your dog shot.
    F*#K THE ATF

  3. #393
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    Default Re: ATF Just Dropped Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by ExFlyinguy View Post
    What are you working on? I've never seen that part.

    Below is the "pistol tube" that mine came with from the store. I had bought the original SB15 which just slid over the pistol tube. I think any tube that has a rib on it for multi-position shoulder stock length is going to be a no-no. The diameter of my pistol tube is large enough that a stock won't slide on to it.

    *ETA: Now I get it- you're working with .22lr? Where you don't need a buffer tube at all?

    Someone posted up thread a "buffered" BCG that doesn't require the buffer tube. So the tube can be removed and you'd just need a plug. It should be able to still use the CMMG .22lr bolt as well as this buffered bcg which sells for almost $400. That should keep me legal in the aspect of nothing with surface area that could be shouldered, like the standard pistol buffer tube, even though no one in their right mind would actually shoulder that an fire a mag.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  4. #394
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    Default Re: ATF Just Dropped Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Someone posted up thread a "buffered" BCG that doesn't require the buffer tube. So the tube can be removed and you'd just need a plug. It should be able to still use the CMMG .22lr bolt as well as this buffered bcg which sells for almost $400. That should keep me legal in the aspect of nothing with surface area that could be shouldered, like the standard pistol buffer tube, even though no one in their right mind would actually shoulder that an fire a mag.
    If you are converting to .22lr I believe that you are correct, in that the cmmg does not require the tube, as it is blow back only. I run it in my Ruger SR556 and turn the gas block completely off. But that's a big $ investment to convert as opposed to just running a pistol tube. I am still a bit concerned about their wording but I think I'm just over analyzing it. I'd like to believe that a pistol tube, would keep an AR as legal as an AK?

    Somebody was kind enough to respond to my earlier comment's, I will see if I can find that post and copy it.


    Found it:
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeRabbit View Post
    I AM NOT A LAWYER

    Despite finding this, it still does not make me feel 100% warm and fuzzy inside (I do not like the use of the word "could" and "may"). It also does not say if it's the OAL of the buffer tube, or the part protruding from the receiver.

    Page 162 of the "Final Rule"

    "One objective design feature ATF may consider is whether the attachment is
    required for the cycle of operations of the weapon, which could indicate the firearm is not
    designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder. For example, an AR-type pistol
    with a standard 6- to 6-1/2-inch buffer tube may not be designed, made, and intended to
    be fired from the shoulder even if the buffer tube provides surface area that allows the
    firearm to be shoulder fired."
    "It seems that the Constitution is more or less guidelines than actual rules"
    My feedback: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685

  5. #395
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    Default Re: ATF Just Dropped Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by widgetman101 View Post
    This is what I was saying earlier in the thread, it's the same thing they did with solvent traps. The ATF has already declared that your AR Pistol is an SBR, providing a pic with the brace is just showing that you already own and possess an illegal SBR with no tax stamp. The AR Pistol in the ATF eyes as of their ruling is it's now an SBR, it isn't a AR pistol anymore which is the point.
    If that is true, then there is no legal way to comply without registering it with the ATF. That's not what I have been hearing. There's 10-40M of these out there. If you can't legally change it to not be an SBR, the ATF will be spending a lot of time confiscating them since I don't think all of them will be registered.

  6. #396
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    Default Re: ATF Just Dropped Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by ExFlyinguy View Post
    If you are converting to .22lr I believe that you are correct, in that the cmmg does not require the tube, as it is blow back only. I run it in my Ruger SR556 and turn the gas block completely off. But that's a big $ investment to convert as opposed to just running a pistol tube. I am still a bit concerned about their wording but I think I'm just over analyzing it. I'd like to believe that a pistol tube, would keep an AR as legal as an AK?

    Somebody was kind enough to respond to my earlier comment's, I will see if I can find that post and copy it.


    Found it:
    For now, I'll keep the CMMG bolt in with the tube removed and blocked. As I said, a bolt is made that can fire .556 without the need of a buffer tube, the BCG provides the buffering. But the plug is still needed regardless. I'm just covering my bases without registering.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  7. #397
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    Default Re: ATF Just Dropped Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    For now, I'll keep the CMMG bolt in with the tube removed and blocked. As I said, a bolt is made that can fire .556 without the need of a buffer tube, the BCG provides the buffering. But the plug is still needed regardless. I'm just covering my bases without registering.
    I thought you had a great idea, and I was about to order the parts to do the same thing. I suddenly remembered my upper is a side charge and I probably don't have a way to eliminate the buffer tube.

  8. #398
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    Default Re: ATF Just Dropped Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by DK23 View Post
    If that is true, then there is no legal way to comply without registering it with the ATF. That's not what I have been hearing. There's 10-40M of these out there. If you can't legally change it to not be an SBR, the ATF will be spending a lot of time confiscating them since I don't think all of them will be registered.
    If you aren't familiar with the solvent trap issue research it. That's exactly what they did with those already. More and more people got onto buying solvent traps then filing a form 1 which typically took 30-60 days to get approved. Once approved you could then have it engraved and drill it out to make it a suppressor.

    The ATF then decided that solvent traps aren't actually solvent traps, they're now suppressors and those supplying the solvent trap kits must now be licensed manufactures and sell them as if they're already a suppressor. After they made that determination all these solvent trap companies stopped selling parts because they were now classified as suppressor parts.

    If you had already bought those parts you couldn't actually use them to get an approved Form 1 because the ATF was now considering that material already a suppressor. The ATF has ruled that the pistol braced AR's are SBR's, I really don't see how the logic is any different.

    If you watch the GnG video someone else posted it's explained there too. Not a fan of their channel but at least they got right to the point and not 3 minutes of ads on a 4 minute video.

  9. #399
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    Default Re: ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

    Step 1: have boating accident
    Step 3: See/submit attached form



    IANAL YMMV

  10. #400
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    Default Re: ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

    Alphabet agency be like 🦁


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