ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

[GunLawyer001]

Apple's to Buicks. How many new MG's were legal until an executive fiat made them not so, after being told by the same agency they were not MG's go ahead for a decade.

OK, which scenario is the one where you grab your ankles and submit to registration so you can own what you want, like the heroes are complaining about?

Seems like both of them, to me. Apples to apples.

You don't have to break every law you dislike, it's OK to comply with the little stuff while you do what you can to fight the good fight. Hide the Jews in your attic, refuse to report your neighbors to the authorities if they speak well of Trump, refuse to use delusional pronouns, object to "women" waving their cocks around in the actual women's safe spaces like locker rooms and bathrooms, decline to "kneel against racist cops murdering young black men". Protest abortion, protest toddler drag shows, protest the browning of America if that's your thing. "Shoulder braces" are not in that class of things.

[ShadeRabbit]

I'm a bit perplexed by the "surface area/buffer tube" language myself. I remember back before braces were a thing there were issues about adding items like rubber cane feet on buffer tube. Anything that increased the comfort of shouldering the tube was basically a no-no.
I don't know- can the buffer tube by itself be considered a stock? ARs are bad but AK pistols are ok?

I AM NOT A LAWYER

Despite finding this, it still does not make me feel 100% warm and fuzzy inside (I do not like the use of the word "could" and "may"). It also does not say if it's the OAL of the buffer tube, or the part protruding from the receiver.

Page 162 of the "Final Rule"

"One objective design feature ATF may consider is whether the attachment is
required for the cycle of operations of the weapon, which could indicate the firearm is not
designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder. For example, an AR-type pistol
with a standard 6- to 6-1/2-inch buffer tube may not be designed, made, and intended to
be fired from the shoulder even if the buffer tube provides surface area that allows the
firearm to be shoulder fired."

[Daycrawler]

So, a guy offered to sell me to AR pistols today. He seems to be very worried. If I buy an AR pistol WITHOUT a brace, does it have to registered under this new scheme? If the answer is no, I'll probably buy them. If it's yes, then is it best I pass on the offer? I can tell him to keep the braces of whatever type they are. I requested pictures and he has not sent me any so far.

[Emptymag]

So, a guy offered to sell me to AR pistols today. He seems to be very worried. If I buy an AR pistol WITHOUT a brace, does it have to registered under this new scheme? If the answer is no, I'll probably buy them. If it's yes, then is it best I pass on the offer? I can tell him to keep the braces of whatever type they are. I requested pictures and he has not sent me any so far.

That's the thing - nobody knows yet.

In the world we USED to live in, an AR pistol was a pistol because it had a barrel under 16" and it had a PISTOL buffer tube - one that would not allow a stock to be attached because the tube was a different shape.

In the world we live in NOW, the ATF is pulling "definitions" out of their asses, and making the "rules" as clear as mud.

Nobody knows how to interpret their "surface area" bullshit in regards to buffer tubes - just come right out and say it - CLARIFY it for us peasants.

You SHOULD be fine to own an AR15 pistol - but at THIS point in time, who the fuck knows.


For my two pistols, this is my plan.
1. WAIT to see if any of this information gets clarified.
2. If this TRULY is about what they SAY it's about - "braces" - I remove the braces. Done. I still have my pistols.
3. If this ends up being a mass ban on pistols, I remove the barrels, and braces, and replace them with 16" barrels, and add stocks to them.
I'm NOT giving them to the police. I'm not destroying them, and I'm NOT registering them with the fucking government "for free".
It's perfectly legal to convert a pistol to a rifle, so I'll just end up with two more carbines.

[John_Wick]

So, a guy offered to sell me to AR pistols today. He seems to be very worried. If I buy an AR pistol WITHOUT a brace, does it have to registered under this new scheme? If the answer is no, I'll probably buy them. If it's yes, then is it best I pass on the offer? I can tell him to keep the braces of whatever type they are. I requested pictures and he has not sent me any so far.

The ATF FAQ says it is still a pistol if you remove the brace, yada yada. However, there's a lot of language in the rule that suggests pretty much everything with a barrel < 16" could possibly be an SBR. Are you willing to stamp it or swap the barrel if that ends up being the case? If not, I would probably pass.

[ray h]

So, a guy offered to sell me to AR pistols today. He seems to be very worried. If I buy an AR pistol WITHOUT a brace, does it have to registered under this new scheme? If the answer is no, I'll probably buy them. If it's yes, then is it best I pass on the offer? I can tell him to keep the braces of whatever type they are. I requested pictures and he has not sent me any so far.

If they have a smooth buffer tube they don't need to be registered.
There's going to be some cheap AR pistols hitting the market. Non NFA dealers with braced AR pistols in inventory will be dumping them, otherwise they will be forced to pull the braces off every one of them.

[ray h]

That's the thing - nobody knows yet.

In the world we USED to live in, an AR pistol was a pistol because it had a barrel under 16" and it had a PISTOL buffer tube - one that would not allow a stock to be attached because the tube was a different shape.

In the world we live in NOW, the ATF is pulling "definitions" out of their asses, and making the "rules" as clear as mud.

Nobody knows how to interpret their "surface area" bullshit in regards to buffer tubes - just come right out and say it - CLARIFY it for us peasants.

You SHOULD be fine to own an AR15 pistol - but at THIS point in time, who the fuck knows.


For my two pistols, this is my plan.
1. WAIT to see if any of this information gets clarified.
2. If this TRULY is about what they SAY it's about - "braces" - I remove the braces. Done. I still have my pistols.
3. If this ends up being a mass ban on pistols, I remove the barrels, and braces, and replace them with 16" barrels, and add stocks to them.
I'm NOT giving them to the police. I'm not destroying them, and I'm NOT registering them with the fucking government "for free".
It's perfectly legal to convert a pistol to a rifle, so I'll just end up with two more carbines.

I've got one AR pistol with barrel long enough that it makes sense to permanently attach a long enough muzzle device to make it over 16" .

[R L Suehr]

OK, which scenario is the one where you grab your ankles and submit to registration so you can own what you want, like the heroes are complaining about?

Seems like both of them, to me. Apples to apples.

You don't have to break every law you dislike, it's OK to comply with the little stuff while you do what you can to fight the good fight. Hide the Jews in your attic, refuse to report your neighbors to the authorities if they speak well of Trump, refuse to use delusional pronouns, object to "women" waving their cocks around in the actual women's safe spaces like locker rooms and bathrooms, decline to "kneel against racist cops murdering young black men". Protest abortion, protest toddler drag shows, protest the browning of America if that's your thing. "Shoulder braces" are not in that class of things.

I was pointing out that at no point did the ATF give the go ahead to manufacture a MG, then went "our bad" a decade later and after several million people legally bought/manufactured one. If you want to compare it, it would be closer to the ATF's approval of bumb stocks if they said: Okay, these are now MG's so you can register it as a MG. Point is if you have a MG now it is and always has been contraband and a felony without the stamp. That's why millions of people don't own them. Braces were completely legal for the last decade and people bought tons of them. Now they're in the same class of people that illegally possessed MG's. That's a little different and the effects on people are completely different. Not a completely fair comparison, no matter how much you talk about getting bent over or hiding Jews in your attic or whatever the "heroes" here think or do.
None of which is anything I even alluded to in my post.

[Emptymag]

I've got one AR pistol with barrel long enough that it makes sense to permanently attach a long enough muzzle device to make it over 16" .

That's stupid. You should just register your gun with the overlords. It's for our safety. And it's FREE!!!

What I meant to say was, yeah, that makes a hell of a lot more sense than participating in whatever game the feds are playing with us.

[USMC3531]

Worst case. If you want to keep it a pistol get rid of the buffertube and use a modified bolt. https://www.lawtactical.com/ar_inter...IC_p/99367.htm