ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

[ShadeRabbit]

This was written by John Crump (not a lawyer, think what you want of his videos) over at ammoland.com

"Any pistol with a length of pull that is consistent with that of what would be found in a rifle would be considered an SBR. Any adjustable attachments, such as a multi-position buffer tube, would also automatically make the pistol an SBR. If the shooter places an optic on their firearm that requires an eye relief that is consistent with what*s used on a rifle, such as a scope, then that gun will also be considered a short barreled rifle. If a firearm has the surface area to be fired from the shoulder, such as a firearm equipped with a nonadjustable buffer tube, then that will be considered an SBR, basically making every AR-15 pistol an SBR."

https://www.ammoland.com/2023/01/atf...#axzz7qQLPofpA

[Emptymag]

Hey, that's what we were just discussing.

We shall see.
If that's the case, then why not just say that?
Why is all the focus on braces?

I dunno. I'm not gonna run around screaming that the end is near until we learn more.
LOTS of people are going to try to "guess" what's going on - some are going to do it for the "views" it gets them.
Things are going to get much more confusing before they get clear.

[ScaredOnce]

Hey, that's what we were just discussing.

We shall see.
If that's the case, then why not just say that?
Why is all the focus on braces?

I dunno. I'm not gonna run around screaming that the end is near until we learn more.
LOTS of people are going to try to "guess" what's going on - some are going to do it for the "views" it gets them.
Things are going to get much more confusing before they get clear.

Agree. I got mad for 3 seconds. Then I went back to brunching.

[Woodwanderer]

Stupid question for a friend…lets say one has a PMF AR pistol on an 80% lower…

Short of noncompliance: How is one supposed to “register” this as an SBR? hard to register something that doesnt exist in their books/doesnt have a serial number…

Does this effectively do away with 80% ARs (its a stretch, i know…)

[Ronin]

They aren't banning "pistols", but they are trying to change the definition of what a stock is, to include an item (arm braces) that looks similar and may or may not be used similarly to a stock.
They got their pee pees smacked when they tried to regulate how people hold a gun, they are doing the same thing again. The ATF says a handgun should be designed to be able to shot with one hand and not shouldered. Pistol braces are for that very purpose, so they aren't going after them based on their intended purpose, they are once again, going after them based on how people are using them.
They already know this is going to be struck down because it already has been struck down, in the mean time they are going to get as many people to "register" their firearms as they can, for future reference.

Correction - by their own admission, they are changing the definition of a rifle, not a stock.

[Ronin]

Hey, that's what we were just discussing.

We shall see.
If that's the case, then why not just say that?
Why is all the focus on braces?

I dunno. I'm not gonna run around screaming that the end is near until we learn more.
LOTS of people are going to try to "guess" what's going on - some are going to do it for the "views" it gets them.
Things are going to get much more confusing before they get clear.

[Gunsnwater]

The language in this ruling now defines "single pull of the trigger" and not "single function of the trigger."

So... it's a two-fer, now they have standing to ban binary triggers.

Neat.

In what ruling?

[Ilikebuckets]

Ian at Forgotten Weapons has an interesting video about SBR*s. He says that the reason SBR*s are prohibited is that the 1934 Firearms Act was originally going after handguns and wanted to tax every handgun sold $200. SBR*s were added so that they could eliminate the potential loophole of people cutting down Rifles and Shotguns to a handgun lengths making them easy to conceal. Then they could claim the SBR was a rifle, not a handgun and exempt from the NFA.

Lobbyists got handguns removed from the NFA, but the SBR*s were still in it when passed. So were included not because they were scarier or more dangerous than other guns, but to cut off a potential loophole.

He also does a good job explaining how absurd the SBR rules are and has a lot of interesting history in the video including why shotguns need and 18 inch barrel and a rifle is 16 inches.

[fallenleader]

Ian at Forgotten Weapons has an interesting video about SBR*s. He says that the reason SBR*s are prohibited is that the 1934 Firearms Act was originally going after handguns and wanted to tax every handgun sold $200. SBR*s were added so that they could eliminate the potential loophole of people cutting down Rifles and Shotguns to a handgun lengths making them easy to conceal. Then they could claim the SBR was a rifle, not a handgun and exempt from the NFA.

Lobbyists got handguns removed from the NFA, but the SBR*s were still in it when passed. So were included not because they were scarier or more dangerous than other guns, but to cut off a potential loophole.

He also does a good job explaining how absurd the SBR rules are and has a lot of interesting history in the video including why shotguns need and 18 inch barrel and a rifle is 16 inches.

on a side note, wasnt the miller case trying to say a man couldn't own a sawed off shotgun because it had no military purpose or history. IE we can ONLY own military weapons, the intent was always for citizens to own military arms?

[ExFlyinguy]

Stupid question for a friend*lets say one has a PMF AR pistol on an 80% lower*

Short of noncompliance: How is one supposed to *register* this as an SBR? hard to register something that doesnt exist in their books/doesnt have a serial number*

Does this effectively do away with 80% ARs (its a stretch, i know*)

I'm going to try and not say that registering a "personally manufactured firearm" is "stupid" because to each their own, but there's absolutely no reason I can think of to build something that you want kept off the radar and totally legal to do so, and then go and do something like registering it as an SBR, or even selling it in pistol form (in PA) for that matter.

It isn't hard to add a S/N and register it like you make it sound.

It's a fucking mess, lets just wait and see what happens