ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

[streaker69]

My 11yr old just informed me that I only have 110 days to do something about an AR pistol that we may or may not have.

[ray h]

Regarding the video above, where does the 88 days come from? I thought it was clearly written in something the ATF put out that as long as you have your form submitted within the 120 days you're ok until they make their determination.

Today I added the one gun I'm considering registering to my existing NFA trust and got it notarized, since it seems you have until the ruling is officially in the register to add the gun to your trust and get the tax free SBR stamp as a trust. I figured I would get that done today to make the cut off. So now I'm $10 towards the free stamp.

You have 120 days to submit form 1 to get it free of the tax. Maybe I'm wrong but is the 120 just to get it free and we are all in violation as soon as it's published. Has anyone read the actual ruling, is the 120 a grace period or is it just to get it for free?
After that they have 88 days to approve it. If they don't approve it in 88 days they will start enforcement.
I don't know if that's true, just repeating what has been said.
The problem with all of this is you are already in possession of an NFA item, you've admitted it, taken pictures of it and notified the ATF of it. Under normal circumstances you can sit back and wait to be approved before taking possession, now everyone is already in possession before applying. If you get denied or delayed you are screwed.

[ray h]

My 11yr old just informed me that I only have 110 days to do something about an AR pistol that we may or may not have.

Is it published yet?

[streaker69]

Is it published yet?

I don't expect him to fully understand the schedule of it. Maybe he watched a GnG video? Who knows

[JoshIronshaft]

You have 120 days to submit form 1 to get it free of the tax. Maybe I'm wrong but is the 120 just to get it free and we are all in violation as soon as it's published. Has anyone read the actual ruling, is the 120 a grace period or is it just to get it for free?
After that they have 88 days to approve it. If they don't approve it in 88 days they will start enforcement.
I don't know if that's true, just repeating what has been said.
The problem with all of this is you are already in possession of an NFA item, you've admitted it, taken pictures of it and notified the ATF of it. Under normal circumstances you can sit back and wait to be approved before taking possession, now everyone is already in possession before applying. If you get denied or delayed you are screwed.

This says the 88 day thing is bupkiss: https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalguno...s_argument_is/

TL;DR - YouTube gun lawyer video claiming that if your nfa amnesty application isn*t processed in 88 days all the bad things happen, but the rules clearly say that*s not true.

For the sake of argument I accept that normally when you file for an SBR there is an 88 day window where if your background check isn*t approved then there could be a big problem.

But normally you aren*t supposed to be in possession of that NFA item until approval. This one time a person with a braced pistol (soon to be considered an sbr) is compliant with the sbr rules and can keep their legal sbr as long as they file in 120 days. It*s kind of weird, but let*s dig in.

The new rules say that once the rule goes into place your braced pistol already was an SBR and you may have been violating the NFA by owning it [1].

Under the new rules the clock didn*t start ticking the moment you made your new NFA SBR item. So most people are well over 88 days from when they acquired this newly classified nfa item and you don*t go directly to jail for that.

Now what do the rules say about your new sbr? As long as you file within 120 days of publication you were always in compliance with your sbr as long as it gets approved. There is explicitly no time limit. It says you are in compliance until you get approval or disapproval [2].

Got banned from r/nfa for reading the actual rule and not listening to YouTube

[1] Page 12

*Consequently, many parties in possession of weapon and *brace* combinations that ATF did not specifically classify in the past as being subject to the NFA may have been violating the NFA by possessing an unregistered rifle with a barrel of less than 16 inches. In addition, where the Department is overruling ATF*s previous classification letters, possessors of the firearms equipped with *stabilizing braces* that were at issue in those letters may also be in possession of unregistered NFA firearms. Prior to the publication of the NPRM and this rule to clarify the regulatory definition of a rifle, many parties did not register these firearms due to a variety of factors discussed in this rule. Therefore, in exercising its enforcement discretion, the Department provides affected persons options that they can choose from by [INSERT DATE 120 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF PUBLICATION IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER] to comply with the statutory requirements. For example, possessors of such weapons, whether an unlicensed individual or an FFL (regardless of SOT status), may register the firearms to comply with the statutory requirements. *

[2] Page 13

*Provided the registration form is properly submitted and documented within the defined time period, the Department will consider individuals to be in compliance with the statutory requirements between the date on which a person*s application is filed and the date a person receives ATF approval or disapproval of the application.*

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regula...cespdf/downloa

[middlefinger]

[esh21167]

Regarding the video above, where does the 88 days come from? I thought it was clearly written in something the ATF put out that as long as you have your form submitted within the 120 days you're ok until they make their determination.

Today I added the one gun I'm considering registering to my existing NFA trust and got it notarized, since it seems you have until the ruling is officially in the register to add the gun to your trust and get the tax free SBR stamp as a trust. I figured I would get that done today to make the cut off. So now I'm $10 towards the free stamp.

This says the 88 day thing is bupkiss: https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalguno...s_argument_is/

It's interesting then that an ATF agent told GOA at SHOT that after the 88 days, they will take an enforcement action for possession of an unregistered SBR.

About 5 minute mark:

[JoshIronshaft]

Yesterday my friend called the PGC and someone told him he could hunt coyotes with an AR15 in 5.56 in Allegheny County, which we don't think is accurate.

I'm inclined to take the written word over the word of mouth, but I'm waiting to hear more information.

I think one thing that might be the point of confusion here, and this is just my understanding, is that even though your background check has to be approved in 88 days, the start date and end date of the background check have nothing to do with your submission date and your approval date. I submit my form 1, they get to it when they get to it, my approval comes back in 88 days or less, they get back to my form and notify me of the approval when they get to it, and therefore the process can easily take more than 88 days.

[John_Wick]

No, that's not a solution for him or any of us. What happens in one state is also a road map for what slowly trickles into other states. This coming from someone that would never in a million years consider living or visiting California again. We can't just say sorry about your luck, just move to a free state. Eventually there won't be any free states left and 30 years from now we'll look like Canada does now.

I didn't say or imply any of that. The facts are what they are and the legal state of affairs is what it is. If he wants to stay on the right side of the law, he has options as we all do. If someone wants to toss a longer barrel on there, cool. If someone wants to get the tax stamp, cool. If someone wants to throw the brace in the fireplace, cool. If someone wants to completely ignore all of this and just keep on doing whatever they wish, also cool. Each of us has to make the decision for ourselves and I truly don't GAF what anyone else decides because it's their life to live.

As for California, my point was that Cali has been one of the least gun-friendly states in the nation for awhile and if you move there knowing that, you can't act surprised when something like this happens. If I moved to NJ today and then a year from now they tell me I can only have a 5-round mag in my gun, of course I'll be pissed but I can't pretend like I didn't dive into that s**t eyes wide open

Just to be clear here, I am 100% opposed to all of this BS. I've been writing to elected officials, supporting the GOA, voicing my opposition anywhere and everywhere I can, etc. This s**t has me so outraged that it keeps me up many nights. At the same time, I have a business, family (dogs too), property, etc. and have no intention of jeopardizing any of it to play chicken with the feds. I will be fighting the good fight while staying on the right side of the law. That's me though. Again, everyone has to make the decision of how to proceed for themselves. At the end of the day, we're all dying alone on whatever hill we choose to stand on.

[John_Wick]

Regarding the video above, where does the 88 days come from? I thought it was clearly written in something the ATF put out that as long as you have your form submitted within the 120 days you're ok until they make their determination.

Today I added the one gun I'm considering registering to my existing NFA trust and got it notarized, since it seems you have until the ruling is officially in the register to add the gun to your trust and get the tax free SBR stamp as a trust. I figured I would get that done today to make the cut off. So now I'm $10 towards the free stamp.

This is a like a game of telephone. The initial source of the information misunderstood the meaning of the original message and the message has just gotten further and further from the truth as it got passed along. The 88-day clock doesn't start unless and until the NICS check results in a "delay" status, which is typically the result of some type of prohibition or uncertainty as to who the applicant is (e.g. there might be 2 guys with the same name and the system needs a human to figure out who is applying). Your application could sit for 2 years before the NICS is even run. Here's where the 88 days actually came from:

Over 70 percent of NICS transactions handled by the FBI result in no descriptive matches or hits to the potential transferee against information contained in the three national databases. In these instances, the FFL is advised to proceed with the transfer. If, however, there are any potentially prohibiting records returned, the FBI must undertake a manual review to determine if the record demonstrates a prohibition to firearms possession. There are three possible outcomes from this review: proceed (i.e., the record does not establish a prohibition and the transaction can proceed), deny (i.e., the record demonstrates a firearms prohibition), or delay. A delay response indicates the information supplied by the prospective firearm transferee has matched a record searched by the NICS and requires additional research before a final determination can be made. Following a delay decision, if the transaction is not resolved within the allowed three-business-day time frame, it is at the discretion of the FFL whether to transfer the firearm. However, the FBI Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Division NICS Program continues to work on the case in an effort to resolve it. When additional information is required on a matching record but cannot be found, the transaction remains open until either the information is provided or 88 days have passed. If prohibiting information is provided following the passage of the three-business-day time frame, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) is notified for potential retrieval of the firearm. If 88 days pass, then the transaction is purged from the NICS, as required by federal regulation 28 CFR 25.9(b)(ii).

You have 120 days to submit form 1 to get it free of the tax. Maybe I'm wrong but is the 120 just to get it free and we are all in violation as soon as it's published. Has anyone read the actual ruling, is the 120 a grace period or is it just to get it for free?
After that they have 88 days to approve it. If they don't approve it in 88 days they will start enforcement.
I don't know if that's true, just repeating what has been said.
The problem with all of this is you are already in possession of an NFA item, you've admitted it, taken pictures of it and notified the ATF of it. Under normal circumstances you can sit back and wait to be approved before taking possession, now everyone is already in possession before applying. If you get denied or delayed you are screwed.

The day that occurs 120 days after publication of the final rule is being referred to as the "compliance date." Whether or not you are technically considered in violation of the law on the date of publication or the compliance date is a question for an attorney. Regarding the 88-day auto-denial thing, see above. That bit of info has just been twisted around and is spreading on YT like a cancer, but it isn't accurate.