ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

[GunLawyer001]

I was pointing out that at no point did the ATF give the go ahead to manufacture a MG, then went "our bad" a decade later and after several million people legally bought/manufactured one. If you want to compare it, it would be closer to the ATF's approval of bumb stocks if they said: Okay, these are now MG's so you can register it as a MG. Point is if you have a MG now it is and always has been contraband and a felony without the stamp. That's why millions of people don't own them. Braces were completely legal for the last decade and people bought tons of them. Now they're in the same class of people that illegally possessed MG's. That's a little different and the effects on people are completely different. Not a completely fair comparison, no matter how much you talk about getting bent over or hiding Jews in your attic or whatever the "heroes" here think or do.
None of which is anything I even alluded to in my post.

That's all great, but you responded to my post, I wasn't chiming in on yours, so I'm not bound to stay within the limits of how YOU want to look at things.

My point is that the "I ain't registerin' nothin'" crowd would fall all over themselves to register some new MG's. So it's not the REGISTERING part they resent. I don't even think it's the slippery slope argument, because ATF did the same thing to Streetsweepers, a free amnesty to register them, and then nothing further. No ATF raids for Remington 870's, nothing. And that "sporting purpose" requirement for shotguns is nowhere authorized by the Constitution, or the statute, really.

You finding some differences between registering, and registering, is fine, but since you bypassed my point entirely I don't think you rebutted me. You're free to have whatever argument you think you can make, but it doesn't nullify the fact that my point is a different point, not "apples to Buicks" but "it turns out that it's not the registration at all". It's not the money, because it's a free registration. It's not that very limited registration is anathema, if it's not universal registration of all rifles and handguns, like the wacky Dems propose. Registration becomes evil when the tyrants know where most of the guns are, so when they ban them, people fear the police using those lists to go door to door and shoot grandma and the dog. If even 30% of the guns are unknown to the tyrants, they can't effectively disarm the people.

But NFA registration is different than Title I registration. All the NFA stuff is either registered, or contraband.

Face it, the early braces were arm braces. They got popular when ATF said that they don't care if you shoulder them. So you have millions of folks buying "arm braces" to use exactly like badly designed SBR's. And now you're horrified that ATF reacted.

Well, they didn't draft the stupid law, that happened in 1934, for stupid reasons. Blame Congress for not doing anything in the last 89 years to remove SBR's from the NFA restrictions.

Stick a longer barrel on the gun and move on. Or register it if you want the fun of an SBR. Or sell it to someone who's willing to deal with it. These are 1st World Problems. And anyone bragging that they will not comply, on a forum monitored by the FBI and ATF and anti-gun private activists, is showboating poorly.

[KPShooting]

..........on a forum monitored by the FBI and ATF and anti-gun private activists......

To all the federal agents monitoring this forum - I would just like to say, sincerely, go fuck yourselves you red coat traitors.

Ok back on topic.

[akley88]

That's all great, but you responded to my post, I wasn't chiming in on yours, so I'm not bound to stay within the limits of how YOU want to look at things.

My point is that the "I ain't registerin' nothin'" crowd would fall all over themselves to register some new MG's. So it's not the REGISTERING part they resent. I don't even think it's the slippery slope argument, because ATF did the same thing to Streetsweepers, a free amnesty to register them, and then nothing further. No ATF raids for Remington 870's, nothing. And that "sporting purpose" requirement for shotguns is nowhere authorized by the Constitution, or the statute, really.

You finding some differences between registering, and registering, is fine, but since you bypassed my point entirely I don't think you rebutted me. You're free to have whatever argument you think you can make, but it doesn't nullify the fact that my point is a different point, not "apples to Buicks" but "it turns out that it's not the registration at all". It's not the money, because it's a free registration. It's not that very limited registration is anathema, if it's not universal registration of all rifles and handguns, like the wacky Dems propose. Registration becomes evil when the tyrants know where most of the guns are, so when they ban them, people fear the police using those lists to go door to door and shoot grandma and the dog. If even 30% of the guns are unknown to the tyrants, they can't effectively disarm the people.

But NFA registration is different than Title I registration. All the NFA stuff is either registered, or contraband.

Face it, the early braces were arm braces. They got popular when ATF said that they don't care if you shoulder them. So you have millions of folks buying "arm braces" to use exactly like badly designed SBR's. And now you're horrified that ATF reacted.

Well, they didn't draft the stupid law, that happened in 1934, for stupid reasons. Blame Congress for not doing anything in the last 89 years to remove SBR's from the NFA restrictions.

Stick a longer barrel on the gun and move on. Or register it if you want the fun of an SBR. Or sell it to someone who's willing to deal with it. These are 1st World Problems. And anyone bragging that they will not comply, on a forum monitored by the FBI and ATF and anti-gun private activists, is showboating poorly.

i'm just curious from a lawyers perspective would removing the brace and having an ar pistol buffer tube be safe or is the safer options doing the registration/ longer upper? there just seems to be a lot of weird wording around the buffer tubes in the ruling.

[Emptymag]

They covered 2 bases quite well with this whole thing.

1. Dangle a carrot for mass compliance. People will do almost anything you want them to do when there's any amount of financial incentive.

2. Create confusuion. Fear is a powerful motivator. "I sure don't want to go to jail, so I'll do "a" just to be on the safe side, because I don't fully understand options "b", or "c".

[Woodwanderer]

Whats considered compliance here though Phil? The act of filing the paperwork or actually being approved and receiving a stamp?

I only ask because if its the latter, there is no way in hell anyone will be in compliance by the 120 day mark. If the former, then does one have to disassemble their non approved weapon while waiting for the tax stamp process to complete (upwards of a year or more later?), effectively making that firearm useless to the LAGO?

[Emptymag]

Whats considered compliance here though Phil? The act of filing the paperwork or actually being approved and receiving a stamp?

I only ask because if its the latter, there is no way in hell anyone will be in compliance by the 120 day mark. If the former, then does one have to disassemble their non approved weapon while waiting for the tax stamp process to complete (upwards of a year or more later?), effectively making that firearm useless to the LAGO?

It's been pointed out that submitting the paperwork by the deadline keeps you legal until they determine if your gun qualifies.
(See the video I posted)

[KPShooting]

It's been pointed out that submitting the paperwork by the deadline keeps you legal until they determine if your gun qualifies.
(See the video I posted)

Yeah and then if they decide your gun doesn't qualify, you're just fucked.

[Royinmontco]

Worst case. If you want to keep it a pistol get rid of the buffertube and use a modified bolt. https://www.lawtactical.com/ar_inter...IC_p/99367.htm

Oof. $390. I think I may try and machine my own....

[MattMPA]

All this makes me wonder about folks that built 80% AR based pistols. How would registering something like that work? Would this be any different than a "manufactured" firearm?

[Emptymag]

Yeah and then if they decide your gun doesn't qualify, you're just fucked.

Oh, you're just being overly dramatic and trying to get people to distrust the government who is only doing this for our safety.

And by that I mean... you are absolutely correct!