Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1131
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    Default Re: ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by EFK View Post
    Given how AR's are basically erector sets for adults, I wonder how constructive possession comes into play when you ditch the brace but meanwhile you've got like 5 or 6 extra stocks in a parts bin? Extra short barrels, extra upper or lower R's, etc.

    So I guess we can't keep spare parts now.
    thats my question too? the braces can be used on rifles per the ATF. what if i have a bunch of rifles and parts?

  2. #1132
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    Default Re: ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by akley88 View Post
    thats my question too? the braces can be used on rifles per the ATF. what if i have a bunch of rifles and parts?
    What if I already own a SBR? Just like having a short barreled upper in your house. Stupid is all.
    Isn't going after trump more important than this anyway?
    FJB

  3. #1133
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    Default Re: ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by bogey1 View Post
    What if I already own a SBR? Just like having a short barreled upper in your house. Stupid is all.
    Isn't going after trump more important than this anyway?
    thats what the FBI and DOJ are for. The ATF, FBI, DOJ, IRS and the others are for going after anyone that supports him, has supported him or ever thought about supporting him or republicans.

  4. #1134
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    Default Re: ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by bogey1 View Post
    What if I already own a SBR? Just like having a short barreled upper in your house. Stupid is all.
    Isn't going after trump more important than this anyway?
    I would think that an extra retractable stock for your rifle and and extra barrel for your pistol should be legal.
    Gender confusion is a mental illness

  5. #1135
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    Default Re: ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
    You didn't know that already? Have you never heard of constructive possession?
    Yes I have. Did you watch the video? Specifically the portions I noted?
    I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!

  6. #1136
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    Default Re: ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by EFK View Post
    Given how AR's are basically erector sets for adults, I wonder how constructive possession comes into play when you ditch the brace but meanwhile you've got like 5 or 6 extra stocks in a parts bin? Extra short barrels, extra upper or lower R's, etc.

    So I guess we can't keep spare parts now.

    It USED to be said (years ago) that a pistol could ONLY use a PISTOL buffer tube.
    That would eliminate the concern about having a stock/stocks lying around - you couldn't attach a stock on a pistol tube.

    At some point SOME pistol braces started appearing that used a standard, carbine buffer tube. "How can this BE?", I asked.
    Nobody ever answered my question. I have no idea when the "law" changed, or if in fact "pistol tubes ONLY on pistols" was ever actually the law vs "internet law".

    It USED to be said by the internet that "If you posses a barrel less than 16", you BETTER have a pistol lower lying around to attach it to, because if you don't, that's constructive possession, and you can go to jail!"

    NOW we can't even get consensus on what is and is not legal - from attorneys who focus on gun laws.
    I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!

  7. #1137
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    Default Re: ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    NOW we can't even get consensus on what is and is not legal - from attorneys who focus on gun laws.
    Because the fuckwits at ATF just make it up as they go along. "Oh man one of our agents got pissed and decided to arrest some one for some bullshit he made up. Better make that a rule so he has cover."
    F*#K THE ATF

  8. #1138
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    Default Re: ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

    The USSC ruled in the Thompson case that if you have possible legal uses for what you have, then it's not constructive possession of some unlawful option; ATF can't presume that you'd take the short barrel from a kit and add the detachable buttstock to make an unregistered SBR, if you could also have made a legal pistol or a legal rifle from the same kit.

    Where you can get in trouble (OK, with today's political law enforcement, anyone can get in trouble) is MOSTLY where you have a short barrel and nothing but rifles it would fit; or you keep the short upper and the stocked lower in the same container; or you post YouTube videos of how you assembled the shortie rifle.

    Remember that it's not enough to take an old AR factory rifle apart & remove the stock; a pistol made from a rifle is ALSO an NFA firearm. You need to have suitable virgin lowers, or factory pistols, for your claim that you were going to make a legal pistol to be plausible.

    At the same time, ATF made the call that a pistol CAN be made into a rifle (that part's not controversial), and then it can be MADE BACK into a legal pistol, even though what you did was took what was a rifle and made it into a pistol. That was a pragmatic call by ATF, because it's easy to pull the factory records for a rifle and seize the pistol the citizen made from it, and that's your prima facie case right there, 2 exhibits + some testimony. MUCH harder to prove that the defendant made his pistol into a rifle and then back to a pistol, so ATF decided that's not a crime.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  9. #1139
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    Default Re: ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    ...or you post YouTube videos of how you assembled the shortie rifle.
    I'm sure I'll be called a dick but that right there - not the specific example but the general premise - is why I think this brace bullshit is happening the way it is.

    Probably the first brace that was made by whatever company made it was shouldered somewhere in private and the shoulderer had a lot of fun. Then he told his buddies and they told their buddies and pretty soon the people who just can't resist making youtube videos of everything from picking their nose to taking a shit just had to put up some videos of these things being shouldered. In other words, a big giant steaming "look at me! look at me! I'm sticking it to the ATF!" And now we're where we are because some control freak at ATF called the bluff.

    I'm not saying it's right - I think it's all retarded - but J F C why does everyone have to publicly post videos of every goddamn thing they do even when they know it's a legal gray area. WTF. We're all being watched and every effing gov't agency is looking for new and creative ways to fuck us over and most importantly control the peasants.
    Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government.

  10. #1140
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    Default Re: ATF Just Released Their Brace Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by EFK View Post
    I'm sure I'll be called a dick but that right there - not the specific example but the general premise - is why I think this brace bullshit is happening the way it is.

    Probably the first brace that was made by whatever company made it was shouldered somewhere in private and the shoulderer had a lot of fun. Then he told his buddies and they told their buddies and pretty soon the people who just can't resist making youtube videos of everything from picking their nose to taking a shit just had to put up some videos of these things being shouldered. In other words, a big giant steaming "look at me! look at me! I'm sticking it to the ATF!" And now we're where we are because some control freak at ATF called the bluff.

    I'm not saying it's right - I think it's all retarded - but J F C why does everyone have to publicly post videos of every goddamn thing they do even when they know it's a legal gray area. WTF. We're all being watched and every effing gov't agency is looking for new and creative ways to fuck us over and most importantly control the peasants.
    Because social media has ruined society. All these idiots are craving attention that they didn't get from their parents, so any opportunity to say "hay look at me!" is seized.

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