Key Arguments for Guns Saving Lives Discussion

[MMH]

I am getting into more discussions on using a gun for self defense. Many of the discussions come from teachers concerned about the safety of their student and religious groups (church and bible study). The discussions are polite and respectful. Most of these people do not have a background with guns. I want to put a list of arguments and statistics together to help strengthen my arguments. Some things that come to mind are:
- Murders committed w/ hands/fists vs. guns.
- Murders committed w/ blunt objects vs. guns.
- number of instances/lives saved because of a gun used for self protection
- number of instances/lives saved because there was a 'good guy with a gun' before a cop showed up

Links & statistics would be helpful along with specific stories.

Thanks!

[DK23]

Here's a link with stories. There may be some links to stats in there as well.

https://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=316012

[JaySmith]

You only get one life. Are you willing to let someone take it from you? Are you going to let someone stop you from watching your kids graduate high school or college? Are you going to make your wife go on her next vacation alone, or come home to an empty house every day? Or go to sleep alone? Or wake up alone?

My wife and children depend heavily on me. If something were to happen to me, their lives would be massively affected and made considerably worse.

Human life is fragile. It can be taken from us in an instant by some thug who won't give a second thought about your life. We see it every day in the news, and the strangers are just another statistic. But what if it happens to you?

[Manxdriver]

Don’t forget to mention the preventative action of a gun being present, or even POSSIBLY being present on crime. A criminal will act freely all day in Camden, but act quite differently ten miles into Pa.

[Bang]

Last week there was something on TV about some entity spending a million dollars on a school safety project.

The plan? To draw up diagrams of the school interior so arriving police can see where a named or described room is.

A million dollars to help arriving police pick up the pieces long after the shooter has done 90% or more of his carnage. Nothing about having guns at the ready. Fucking morons.

[Steve_NEPhila]

Something to remember is that you cannot try to use logic to get someone out of a position that they emoted themselves into. Facts and stats do not matter to that crowd.

Offer to take them out target shooting. Cherry on top if you have a .22 LR with a silencer on it. Do a little safety class before going so that they "feel" prepared. Make sure to have extra headphones because new shooter almost never get earplugs in correctly and will shoot while damaging their hearing and negatively associate it with pain.

[MMH]

Something to remember is that you cannot try to use logic to get someone out of a position that they emoted themselves into. Facts and stats do not matter to that crowd.

Agreed - I don't waste my time trying to convince people whose mind is made up.

It is encouraging that I am having more discussions with people that were not pro-gun but now are looking at guns as a potential solution. I had a discussion about a week ago with a group of teachers (social setting - wife's friends) and they asked me what I thought the best plan for school safety. I responded by saying allowing teachers to be armed in the classroom. Talking about teaches who volunteer to take on this responsibility, take the appropriate training/certification, etc. A lot of discussion ensued and I pointed to the consequence of not allowing teaches to be armed using Uvalde & Parkland as an example. Maybe everyone was not convinced that that was the best solution, but, I know they walked away knowing that it was a potential solution or part of a broader solution. I look at this discussion as a win.

[MMH]

Here's a link with stories. There may be some links to stats in there as well.

https://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=316012

Thanks for the link. I am looking for some of the higher profile situations such as the recent Indianapolis shooting. It would be great if there was a summery on the lower profile shootings or where people showed a gun and it discouraged the crime. Kind of a one or two sentence summery including specific information (e.g. 37 year old mother with 4 year old protected her child when robber broke in her Pittsburgh PA house by shooting him. Suspect apprehended by police after going to emergency room). This type of information could then be boiled down to stats for the basic categories.

[Steve_NEPhila]

Agreed - I don't waste my time trying to convince people whose mind is made up.

It is encouraging that I am having more discussions with people that were not pro-gun but now are looking at guns as a potential solution. I had a discussion about a week ago with a group of teachers (social setting - wife's friends) and they asked me what I thought the best plan for school safety. I responded by saying allowing teachers to be armed in the classroom. Talking about teaches who volunteer to take on this responsibility, take the appropriate training/certification, etc. A lot of discussion ensued and I pointed to the consequence of not allowing teaches to be armed using Uvalde & Parkland as an example. Maybe everyone was not convinced that that was the best solution, but, I know they walked away knowing that it was a potential solution or part of a broader solution. I look at this discussion as a win.

The downside of that is their emotion. Once a statement like "armed teachers will help this..." is said they immediately think of themselves being armed and that scares them. They do not know the first thing about guns and would practically be a danger to themselves and others. This is what stokes their fear. You may have thought it was productive, but what matters is how they feel, to them. They never remember what you said, only how they felt.

Alternatively, appeal to their emotions.

[MMH]

The downside of that is their emotion. Once a statement like "armed teachers will help this..." is said they immediately think of themselves being armed and that scares them. They do not know the first thing about guns and would practically be a danger to themselves and others. This is what stokes their fear. You may have thought it was productive, but what matters is how they feel, to them. They never remember what you said, only how they felt.

Alternatively, appeal to their emotions.

They need to overcome their fears. These same people don't also like the fact that guns are necessary to protect the students, and that relying on one cop for the entire school is totally inadequate. As stated before, only teachers that VOLUNTEER would be taking on this responsibility. Even if only 1 in 5 teachers volunteer, that would be a lot of armed teaches. One other key point is that short of the parents, no one loves the kids more than the teachers. If armed, these teachers would be HIGHLY motivated to protect their students.

The cops in Parkland and Ulvalde either had stand down orders or were not motivated to protect the kids - we will never know. Had some teachers been armed, many lives would have been saved.