Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Best 5.56 for HD in a apartment

    V-Max or other polymer tipped varmint rounds. I don't know what grain would be best but the 50 gr are pretty devastating on soft targets.

    Most home invaders aren't armored up.
    Accuse your enemy of what you are doing as you are doing it to create confusion -Karl Marx

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Best 5.56 for HD in a apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by bogey1 View Post
    I dont know, but I know a 556 will go places I wouldn't want it to go. Maybe a lighter load .45
    and hollow points.

    Right now its: 9mm 9x18 12ga bird shot/00buck .556 .45acp .25 .50bmg
    Contrary to popular belief, pistol rounds aren't any safer for home defense. In fact from the research that I've read a light weight .223 will dump more energy or self-destruct faster than a heavy slow moving pistol cartridge

    YMMV

    "It seems that the Constitution is more or less guidelines than actual rules"
    My feedback: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Best 5.56 for HD in a apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by jthrelf View Post
    First off, shot placement. Don't miss.
    This.

    You should have a defensive position picked out already. Preferably one that requires a bad guy to pass through a door way to reach you (so your point of aim won't need to adjust more that the width of the 36 inch wide doorframe... classic choke point strategy) and preferably one that has a safe background beyond that doorframe if you miss.

    Ideally from your defensive position you would be shooting towards a brick wall so any misses would stop safely and not stray into a neighbor's apartment.

    If you can do that you increase your chance of hitting the intruder by framing him in a doorway and reduce the chance of hitting someone behind him in another unit if you miss.

    Then your round choice doesn't matter as much.

    But.... you don't always have such an ideal defensive position available to you. Whatever your layout is, there are bad defensive positions and less bad defensive positions (there may not be a great one)

    You should not be trying to figure out the best firing position while someone is kicking your door in. You need to already know where you are going.

    Then once you are in your defensive position with a back drop behind a potential target being as safe as possible, stay there. Don't go hunting. This keeps you in control of your safety zone and eliminates random shots made in unsafe directions or worse.... the invader sneaking around behind you.

  4. #14
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    Dec 2012
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    Default Re: Best 5.56 for HD in a apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by RockIsland View Post
    V-Max or other polymer tipped varmint rounds. I don't know what grain would be best but the 50 gr are pretty devastating on soft targets.

    Most home invaders aren't armored up.
    I use the 60gr Vmax for HD rounds. Granted, the AR's aren't usually my first choice, but I keep a couple mags loaded and handy if it's the first thing I can grab.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Best 5.56 for HD in a apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceballs View Post
    This.

    You should have a defensive position picked out already. Preferably one that requires a bad guy to pass through a door way to reach you (so your point of aim won't need to adjust more that the width of the 36 inch wide doorframe... classic choke point strategy) and preferably one that has a safe background beyond that doorframe if you miss.

    Ideally from your defensive position you would be shooting towards a brick wall so any misses would stop safely and not stray into a neighbor's apartment.

    If you can do that you increase your chance of hitting the intruder by framing him in a doorway and reduce the chance of hitting someone behind him in another unit if you miss.

    Then your round choice doesn't matter as much.

    But.... you don't always have such an ideal defensive position available to you. Whatever your layout is, there are bad defensive positions and less bad defensive positions (there may not be a great one)

    You should not be trying to figure out the best firing position while someone is kicking your door in. You need to already know where you are going.

    Then once you are in your defensive position with a back drop behind a potential target being as safe as possible, stay there. Don't go hunting. This keeps you in control of your safety zone and eliminates random shots made in unsafe directions or worse.... the invader sneaking around behind you.
    ^^^ this is pretty good advice ^^^

    Have a plan and stick to it as much as possible. Exterior walls usually have more to go through than interior walls, so barring something like a brick wall try to stick with that behind the target. Multiple walls help too, so interior walls that are doubled ate better than single.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Best 5.56 for HD in a apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by R L Suehr View Post
    ^^^ this is pretty good advice ^^^

    Have a plan and stick to it as much as possible. Exterior walls usually have more to go through than interior walls, so barring something like a brick wall try to stick with that behind the target. Multiple walls help too, so interior walls that are doubled ate better than single.
    This is why I like a defensive position that forces an invader to stand exactly where you are aiming. (Doorway)

    It eliminates all the guesswork because you've already done all the thinking and looked at your walls and floor plan and you already know it's a safe backdrop.

    If possible you also want to know what is behind you. What if the invader shoots at you and misses? Sure, you've made sure there is a brick wall with titanium reinforced sheet rock behind him.... but is your neighbor sleeping in a bed right behind the drywall you are backed up against?

    It won't be your stray rounds hitting the neighbor (or your kid if it's an interior wall of your house) but still...protect the innocent and all.

    My defensive position is at the top of my stairs aimed at a downward angle. Bad guy has to come the stairs to hurt my family. And that means 6 steps in a striaght line away from me until he hits the landing then 6 more steps in a straight line towards me. Good luck with that.

    If I miss my round is going to go through the outer wall of my house at a downward angle and impact the dirt in my garden about 10 feet from the foundation. Odds are very low that anyone will be standing in my garden at 3am.

    If the bad guy shoots at me and misses his round will hit drywall of the hall bathroom in an upward path, then hit ceiling drywall then into attic insulation and roof trusses and plywood and shingles and IF it exists the roof it's still flying up without much energy left so when it comes down it's not going to hurt anyone outside. But there is 0 chance that any of my family will be behind me. No bedrooms behind me. And if someone was in the bathroom at 3am they should be under the path of any bullet fired from the stairs.

    So keep your own backdrop in mind when you set up your defensive position. Make sure you aren't inadvertantly making the bad guy aim towards your loved ones on the other side of the wall behind you.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Best 5.56 for HD in a apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceballs View Post
    This is why I like a defensive position that forces an invader to stand exactly where you are aiming. (Doorway)

    It eliminates all the guesswork because you've already done all the thinking and looked at your walls and floor plan and you already know it's a safe backdrop.

    If possible you also want to know what is behind you. What if the invader shoots at you and misses? Sure, you've made sure there is a brick wall with titanium reinforced sheet rock behind him.... but is your neighbor sleeping in a bed right behind the drywall you are backed up against?

    It won't be your stray rounds hitting the neighbor (or your kid if it's an interior wall of your house) but still...protect the innocent and all.

    My defensive position is at the top of my stairs aimed at a downward angle. Bad guy has to come the stairs to hurt my family. And that means 6 steps in a striaght line away from me until he hits the landing then 6 more steps in a straight line towards me. Good luck with that.

    If I miss my round is going to go through the outer wall of my house at a downward angle and impact the dirt in my garden about 10 feet from the foundation. Odds are very low that anyone will be standing in my garden at 3am.

    If the bad guy shoots at me and misses his round will hit drywall of the hall bathroom in an upward path, then hit ceiling drywall then into attic insulation and roof trusses and plywood and shingles and IF it exists the roof it's still flying up without much energy left so when it comes down it's not going to hurt anyone outside. But there is 0 chance that any of my family will be behind me. No bedrooms behind me. And if someone was in the bathroom at 3am they should be under the path of any bullet fired from the stairs.

    So keep your own backdrop in mind when you set up your defensive position. Make sure you aren't inadvertantly making the bad guy aim towards your loved ones on the other side of the wall behind you.
    You keep the AR loaded with round in chamber safety on or without?

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Best 5.56 for HD in a apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Will3212 View Post
    You keep the AR loaded with round in chamber safety on or without?
    I wouldn't use an AR for home defense at all, personally.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Best 5.56 for HD in a apartment

    You might consider something other than a rifle or pistol. Maybe a shotgun 20 gauge, using lighter weight charges of something like BB or maybe even smaller size shot. At household ranges heavier birdshot would be just as deadly as a solid bullet and dispersion of the shot won't be great either. Not sure about penetration but that still might be a problem. What have you got for party walls?


    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities".

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Best 5.56 for HD in a apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Brick View Post
    You might consider something other than a rifle or pistol. Maybe a shotgun 20 gauge, using lighter weight charges of something like BB or maybe even smaller size shot. At household ranges heavier birdshot would be just as deadly as a solid bullet and dispersion of the shot won't be great either. Not sure about penetration but that still might be a problem. What have you got for party walls?
    Right across my main door is the main door to the other unit. If I was to miss at this point it would hit the unit across from mine.
    There is brick on 2 sides of the apartment, the other 2 are just dry walls and possibly some other type of wooden wall.

    Shooting out of my bed room door would also hit the unit across.

    My 4 year old son sleeps in the other bed room. So if an invader comes through main door and goes directly to son's room. I'd have to go "hunt" him.

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