Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: GOA Sues City of Philadelphia Over Illegal Executive Order Banning Guns in Parks

    Val W. Finnell, MD, MPH | Pennsylvania Director, Gun Owners of America | 717-220-3380

  2. #22
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    Default Re: GOA Sues City of Philadelphia Over Illegal Executive Order Banning Guns in Parks

    At lunch we were talking about this. I said by the time I get home GOA will probably have already filed suit. Thanks Val.
    Sticks and stones will break my bones but hollow points expand on impact.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: GOA Sues City of Philadelphia Over Illegal Executive Order Banning Guns in Parks

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    I haven't seen the executive order, but EO's usually don't impose criminal penalties, not even the summary offenses that locals can impose.

    So I'll remind everyone of the Erie case, and the footnote.
    I live in Erie. Not sure what exactly you are referring to about "the Erie case?"

  4. #24
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    Default Re: GOA Sues City of Philadelphia Over Illegal Executive Order Banning Guns in Parks

    Quote Originally Posted by tallbump View Post
    I live in Erie. Not sure what exactly you are referring to about "the Erie case?"
    I have vague knowledge of the case/incident. There was a group of about 8 guys, who came to be known as, "The Eerie 8" (IIRC), who violated an illegal statute and went on to win their case. I believe that one of the guys' last name is Dillon and he was still active when we went to Shittsburgh about four years ago. I am not sure but I believe that open carrying was the matter at hand. If I am wrong, I welcome correction.
    2024 Trump or Bust!

  5. #25
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    Default Re: GOA Sues City of Philadelphia Over Illegal Executive Order Banning Guns in Parks

    Great work GOA. Another donation on the way!

  6. #26
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    Default Re: GOA Sues City of Philadelphia Over Illegal Executive Order Banning Guns in Parks

    Could this be a trap in order to get it in front of the courts again so they can overturn it? It's obvious that it's illegal and he knew this would go to the courts. Just a thought....
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." Thomas Jefferson

  7. #27
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    Default Re: GOA Sues City of Philadelphia Over Illegal Executive Order Banning Guns in Parks

    Quote Originally Posted by mikelets456 View Post
    Could this be a trap in order to get it in front of the courts again so they can overturn it? It's obvious that it's illegal and he knew this would go to the courts. Just a thought....
    I doubt it, seeing as it was just in the courts not too long ago. He and Krasner are flailing and he doesn't know what to do so he's doing this.
    2024 Trump or Bust!

  8. #28
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    Default Re: GOA Sues City of Philadelphia Over Illegal Executive Order Banning Guns in Parks

    I'm not going to provide hints for the enemy to read. I will say that "gun-free zones" are the most dangerous places in America because all but 1 or 2 of the mass shootings in America have targeted them (not the Vegas shooting, because that loony chose (or was told to use) a high shooting position where the victims couldn't shoot back whether armed or not), that Philly gangbangers don't give a shit about park policies, and that the record of gun violence on city property is almost certainly completely unrelated to LTCF holders, who by definition have been law-abiding for the first 2 decades of their lives. The shooters tend to be career thugs, who are ALREADY prohibited by PA law (and usually Federal law) from possessing handguns anywhere.

    Some idiotic laws or policies are not un-Constitutional, but they're still idiotic, and have zero chance of saving any lives, while they have a significant, documented chance of encouraging homicidal maniacs who know that they will be the only armed person in that venue.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: GOA Sues City of Philadelphia Over Illegal Executive Order Banning Guns in Parks

    Quote Originally Posted by tallbump View Post
    I live in Erie. Not sure what exactly you are referring to about "the Erie case?"
    In Dillon v. City of Erie, 83 A. 3d 467 - Pa: Commonwealth Court 2014 a pro-gun rally was planned for a public park in Erie.

    While he obtained a permit for the rally to be held on June 22, 2013, the City's Solicitor, Gregory Karle, told Dillon that neither he nor any other person would be allowed to carry firearms during the rally, and that if they did, they would be cited under Section 955.06(b) of the City's Ordinances prohibiting hunting and the use or possession of firearms in City parks which states:

    (b) Hunting and Firearms. No person in a park shall hunt, trap or pursue wild life at any time. No person shall use, carry or possess firearms of any descriptions, or air-rifles, spring guns, bow and arrows, slings, paint ball weapons or any other forms of weapons potentially inimical to wild life and dangerous to human safety, or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges, or any kind of trapping device. Shooting into park areas from beyond park boundaries is forbidden.[[2]]
    The Commonwealth court eventually ruled that the ordinance was a preemption violation in that the city was not empowered as a GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY under the home rule charter relying on previous case law.

    The sum of the case is that the Constitution of Pennsylvania requires that home rule municipalities may not perform any power denied by the General Assembly; [through Section 6120] the General Assembly has denied all municipalities the power to regulate the ownership, possession, transfer or possession [sic] of firearms; and the municipalities seek to regulate that which the General Assembly has said that they may not regulate. The inescapable conclusion, unless there is more, is that the municipalities' attempt to ban the possession of certain types of firearms is constitutionally infirm. Ortiz v. Com., 681 A. 2d 152 - Pa: Supreme Court 1996
    and therefore the Commonwealth Court ruled:
    Based on the foregoing, Section 6120(a) of the Act does preempt Section 955.06(b) by its own terms and by the case law and precludes the City from regulating the lawful possession of firearms. As a result, the trial court erred in determining that Dillon failed to show that he has a clear right to relief[8] because Section 6120(a) preempts all firearms regulation thereby prohibiting the City from regulating the possession of firearms in its parks via Section 955.06(b) of the City's Ordinances.[9]
    Sounds like a win BUT there was a not so veiled hint that there may be a preemption work-around available to future restrictive actions by cities, towns, counties, etc regarding firearms provided in the [9] footnote dicta which stated:
    [9] Not raised by the City is Section 3710 of the Third Class City Code, Act of June 23, 1931, P.L. 932, as amended, 53 P.S. § 38710, which provides, in pertinent part, that the City "shall at all times be invested with the power and authority to adopt suitable rules and regulations concerning the use and occupation of [its] parks and playgrounds by the public generally...." It could be argued that the City may be empowered under that grant of power from the State to regulate the possession of firearms in its parks pursuant to its proprietary power to control conduct that takes place on its property rather than through an ordinance of general application enacted pursuant to its general police powers. Similarly, Section 11.215 of the regulations of the Commonwealth's Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, 17 Pa.Code § 11.215, generally prohibits "[p]ossessing an uncased device, or uncasing a device, including a firearm,... that is capable of discharging or propelling a projectile ..." in state parks, subject to a number of enumerated exceptions.
    This is what will probably play a significant role invoked by the City in the case at hand - the innate power of a"property owner" [of the park] simply setting rules as opposed to a government subdivision using their legislative and police power to establish and enforce an ordinance. The enforcement mechanism would then fall under the trespass statute (18 Pa CSA §3503)
    IANAL

  10. #30
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    Default Re: GOA Sues City of Philadelphia Over Illegal Executive Order Banning Guns in Parks

    It would be nice if the penalty for a politician losing a lawsuit on grounds of unconstitutionality is automatic ejection from office. I think you would find the asshats being a lot more careful with their bullshit. Otherwise - there's noting stopping them, since all the court will do, at most, is end the policy and fine the taxpayers.

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