Results 11 to 20 of 46
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September 1st, 2022, 04:06 PM #11
Re: Traveling to N.C. via Maryland, and VA.
Read and understand all posts to date (I see up thru #10).
If yinz are from Western PA, use WV to go south to VA, then turn east. Avoid MD as they just want to make you a felon.
My 2¢
YMMV
etc...
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September 1st, 2022, 06:43 PM #12Member
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Western Pa,
Pennsylvania
(Butler County) - Posts
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Re: Traveling to N.C. via Maryland, and VA.
Im going to leave it at home, and hope I don't have to defend myself. Maybe I'll buy another handgun in NC.
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September 1st, 2022, 08:46 PM #13
Re: Traveling to N.C. via Maryland, and VA.
Do what you feel comfortable with, but there's absolutely no reason not to transport through Maryland per federal law and carry in VA and NC. I have done it many times. Don't volunteer information, don't consent to searches, don't give in to a fishing expedition.
We are our own worst enemies sometimes. Don't go above and beyond already ridiculous gun laws. FOPA is a valid defense for this situation. Know the details and keep your mouth shut and you'll be fine.
You generally can't buy a handgun outside of your state of residence.
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September 8th, 2022, 05:23 PM #14
Re: Traveling to N.C. via Maryland, and VA.
I see where you could the locked container bit, as it is required to be in a locked container if you are in a vehicle such as a truck or suv without a "separate compartment" (ie trunk) other than the glove box or console.
Where did you get unloaded magazines from, though?
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September 8th, 2022, 05:57 PM #15
Re: Traveling to N.C. via Maryland, and VA.
It's a gray area, and there is not a Federal definition of "unloaded" or "loaded" that I am aware of, but some states (likely the ones you need FOPA for) have defined having loaded magazines in the same container as the firearm as being a loaded firearm, even though the magazine is not inserted. My default is to err on the side of caution.
ETA: Link to a post by GunLawyer001 specifically regarding PA's definition. https://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.p...94#post4540694Last edited by ROCK-IT3; September 8th, 2022 at 06:12 PM.
Power always thinks...that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws.
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September 8th, 2022, 06:13 PM #16
Re: Traveling to N.C. via Maryland, and VA.
Several inaccuracies above:
*Magazines can be loaded
*Ammo CANNOT be in the same container as the firearm
*If no compartment separate from driver's compartment, only one or the other (firearm or ammo) is REQUIRED to be in a locked container (though both isn't a bad idea)
The actual statute:
18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.Last edited by gnbrotz; September 8th, 2022 at 06:55 PM.
Get your "Guns Save Lives" stickers today! PM for more info.
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September 8th, 2022, 06:39 PM #17
Re: Traveling to N.C. via Maryland, and VA.
I disagree with at least two of what you suggest are "inaccuracies".
For discussion:
*Someone else just asked about the magazines being loaded. Can you define "unloaded" based on the FOPA text, or find a Federal definition? If no Fed definition, then the State challenging the legality of your transport will likely use its own definition, which, in many cases (including PA) defines a loaded magazine in the same compartment with a firearm the magazine fits as loaded firearm.
*Please point out in the FOPA text support for inaccuracy #2. I don't see it. My understanding is: ammo can be in a separate compartment of the same locked container, or, in the case of a trunk, locked in the trunk together.
*I guess technically the word or between firearm and ammunition means either one of them, but how does that reconcile with neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible...Power always thinks...that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws.
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September 8th, 2022, 07:10 PM #18
Re: Traveling to N.C. via Maryland, and VA.
I'm leaving my original comments above unedited, but made a note to see the ongoing conversation as I add more info that conflicts with my original assertions.
1. There is no definition for "loaded" within 926A, nor within 921, which contains ALL reference definitions for all of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44. Absent a specific statutory definition, I would default to the 'common language', and assumed to be universally understood definition: no rounds in the gun. Just as an air rifle is not a "firearm", unless some crazy NJ statute actually defines it as such, a loaded magazine is not a loaded "firearm". What particular states may or may not say is irrelevant to the pure discussion of what protections FOPA itself provides.
2. I'm going to completely backtrack on my previous statement in regards to ammo storage. In the case of a trunk, based on the specific (and limited) language, I believe a firearm with no ammunition in it (no mag OR empty mag inserted) is legal in the trunk, with either a loaded magazine (not inserted in the firearm), or an unloaded magazine and loose rounds all co-mingling together. Having a trunk imposes the loosest of possible restrictions under FOPA. Again, I'm speaking strictly what meet the legal requirements, not what I might advise, or do myself, or what individual states may require.
3. In an SUV, "readily accessible" could be avoided even with all items being loose, or each in their own containers, whether locked or not, or all in a single container. If they are as far to the rear as possible, or even somewhere in the middle under luggage, IMO, they are not "readily accessible". Again, there is no statutory definition of this term, so in my mind, that means "able to get it without leaving the seat position I am in (whether driver or front-seat passenger). The exclusion of glove box and console as storage options seems to support this mindset. IMO, the imposition of at least one locked container in this type of scenario helps to define the requirements just a little more rigidly than when a trunk is available.Get your "Guns Save Lives" stickers today! PM for more info.
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September 8th, 2022, 07:30 PM #19
Re: Traveling to N.C. via Maryland, and VA.
1. Absent a Federal definition, I would expect a State to prosecute under their own definition, as the State is prosecuting for violating THEIR laws, not Federal laws. I my be wrong, however, my method of transport eliminates, or greatly reduces, the gray area. Also, the definition used by PA (and other States?) does not define a loaded magazine as a loaded firearm, since a magazine is not a firearm, but it does make a loaded magazine in the same container as a firearm an element of "loaded firearm".
2. Agreed, although see my #1 re: individual states.
3. Agreed. I believe the intent of the law is to impose hurdles to quick access to a loaded firearm, including stopping the vehicle and exiting it, or at least having to take several distinct actions or steps in order to have a loaded firearm in your hands.Power always thinks...that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws.
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September 8th, 2022, 07:52 PM #20
Re: Traveling to N.C. via Maryland, and VA.
From a 2011 thread regarding FOPA and loaded magazines.
As has already been established there is no on-point statutory definition. Below is some case law that is also not directly on-point but lends some inkling as to how a Federal court might interpret the loaded/unloaded enigma. Perhaps someone can provide update case law from the ensuing decade since I did my research.
A simpler solution follows immediately below ...
IANAL
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