Traveling to N.C. via Maryland, and VA.

[Sgt.K]

Read and understand all posts to date (I see up thru #10).

If yinz are from Western PA, use WV to go south to VA, then turn east. Avoid MD as they just want to make you a felon.

My 2¢
YMMV
etc...

[daddy]

Im going to leave it at home, and hope I don't have to defend myself. Maybe I'll buy another handgun in NC.

[jthrelf]

Im going to leave it at home, and hope I don't have to defend myself. Maybe I'll buy another handgun in NC.

Do what you feel comfortable with, but there's absolutely no reason not to transport through Maryland per federal law and carry in VA and NC. I have done it many times. Don't volunteer information, don't consent to searches, don't give in to a fishing expedition.

We are our own worst enemies sometimes. Don't go above and beyond already ridiculous gun laws. FOPA is a valid defense for this situation. Know the details and keep your mouth shut and you'll be fine.

You generally can't buy a handgun outside of your state of residence.

[jcourson]

As to Maryland, yes. Unloaded, including magazines unloaded, and in a locked container (ammo can be in the same locked container, but not in the magazine), either in a trunk if available, or in an area not readily accessible, such as the back of an SUV, (not in the glove box or console).

I see where you could the locked container bit, as it is required to be in a locked container if you are in a vehicle such as a truck or suv without a "separate compartment" (ie trunk) other than the glove box or console.
Where did you get unloaded magazines from, though?

[ROCK-IT3]

I see where you could the locked container bit, as it is required to be in a locked container if you are in a vehicle such as a truck or suv without a "separate compartment" (ie trunk) other than the glove box or console.
Where did you get unloaded magazines from, though?

It's a gray area, and there is not a Federal definition of "unloaded" or "loaded" that I am aware of, but some states (likely the ones you need FOPA for) have defined having loaded magazines in the same container as the firearm as being a loaded firearm, even though the magazine is not inserted. My default is to err on the side of caution.

ETA: Link to a post by GunLawyer001 specifically regarding PA's definition. https://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.p...94#post4540694

[gnbrotz]

As to Maryland, yes. Unloaded, including magazines unloaded, and in a locked container (ammo can be in the same locked container, but not in the magazine), either in a trunk if available, or in an area not readily accessible, such as the back of an SUV, (not in the glove box or console).

Several inaccuracies above:
*Magazines can be loaded
*Ammo CANNOT be in the same container as the firearm
*If no compartment separate from driver's compartment, only one or the other (firearm or ammo) is REQUIRED to be in a locked container (though both isn't a bad idea)

The actual statute:

18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

*I'm leaving my original comments for posterity, but see ongoing discussion below for some change in stance on my part.

[ROCK-IT3]

Several inaccuracies above:
*Magazines can be loaded
*Ammo CANNOT be in the same container as the firearm
*If no compartment separate from driver's compartment, only one or the other (firearm or ammo) is REQUIRED to be in a locked container (though both isn't a bad idea)

The actual statute:

I disagree with at least two of what you suggest are "inaccuracies".

For discussion:
*Someone else just asked about the magazines being loaded. Can you define "unloaded" based on the FOPA text, or find a Federal definition? If no Fed definition, then the State challenging the legality of your transport will likely use its own definition, which, in many cases (including PA) defines a loaded magazine in the same compartment with a firearm the magazine fits as loaded firearm.

*Please point out in the FOPA text support for inaccuracy #2. I don't see it. My understanding is: ammo can be in a separate compartment of the same locked container, or, in the case of a trunk, locked in the trunk together.

*I guess technically the word or between firearm and ammunition means either one of them, but how does that reconcile with neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible...

[gnbrotz]

I disagree with at least two of what you suggest are "inaccuracies".

For discussion:
*Someone else just asked about the magazines being loaded. Can you define "unloaded" based on the FOPA text, or find a Federal definition? If no Fed definition, then the State challenging the legality of your transport will likely use its own definition, which, in many cases (including PA) defines a loaded magazine in the same compartment with a firearm the magazine fits as loaded firearm.

*Please point out in the FOPA text support for inaccuracy #2. I don't see it. My understanding is: ammo can be in a separate compartment of the same locked container, or, in the case of a trunk, locked in the trunk together.

*I guess technically the word or between firearm and ammunition means either one of them, but how does that reconcile with neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible...

I'm leaving my original comments above unedited, but made a note to see the ongoing conversation as I add more info that conflicts with my original assertions.

1. There is no definition for "loaded" within 926A, nor within 921, which contains ALL reference definitions for all of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44. Absent a specific statutory definition, I would default to the 'common language', and assumed to be universally understood definition: no rounds in the gun. Just as an air rifle is not a "firearm", unless some crazy NJ statute actually defines it as such, a loaded magazine is not a loaded "firearm". What particular states may or may not say is irrelevant to the pure discussion of what protections FOPA itself provides.

2. I'm going to completely backtrack on my previous statement in regards to ammo storage. In the case of a trunk, based on the specific (and limited) language, I believe a firearm with no ammunition in it (no mag OR empty mag inserted) is legal in the trunk, with either a loaded magazine (not inserted in the firearm), or an unloaded magazine and loose rounds all co-mingling together. Having a trunk imposes the loosest of possible restrictions under FOPA. Again, I'm speaking strictly what meet the legal requirements, not what I might advise, or do myself, or what individual states may require.

3. In an SUV, "readily accessible" could be avoided even with all items being loose, or each in their own containers, whether locked or not, or all in a single container. If they are as far to the rear as possible, or even somewhere in the middle under luggage, IMO, they are not "readily accessible". Again, there is no statutory definition of this term, so in my mind, that means "able to get it without leaving the seat position I am in (whether driver or front-seat passenger). The exclusion of glove box and console as storage options seems to support this mindset. IMO, the imposition of at least one locked container in this type of scenario helps to define the requirements just a little more rigidly than when a trunk is available.

[ROCK-IT3]

I'm leaving my original comments above unedited, but made a note to see the ongoing conversation as I add more info that conflicts with my original assertions.

1. There is no definition for "loaded" within 926A, nor within 921, which contains ALL reference definitions for all of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44. Absent a specific statutory definition, I would default to the 'common language', and assumed to be universally understood definition: no rounds in the gun. Just as an air rifle is not a "firearm", unless some crazy NJ statute actually defines it as such, a loaded magazine is not a loaded "firearm". What particular states may or may not say is irrelevant to the pure discussion of what protections FOPA itself provides.

2. I'm going to completely backtrack on my previous statement in regards to ammo storage. In the case of a trunk, based on the specific (and limited) language, I believe a firearm with no ammunition in it (no mag OR empty mag inserted) is legal in the trunk, with either a loaded magazine (not inserted in the firearm), or an unloaded magazine and loose rounds all co-mingling together. Having a trunk imposes the loosest of possible restrictions under FOPA. Again, I'm speaking strictly what meet the legal requirements, not what I might advise, or do myself, or what individual states may require.

3. In an SUV, "readily accessible" could be avoided even with all items being loose, or each in their own containers, whether locked or not, or all in a single container. If they are as far to the rear as possible, or even somewhere in the middle under luggage, IMO, they are not "readily accessible". Again, there is no statutory definition of this term, so in my mind, that means "able to get it without leaving the seat position I am in (whether driver or front-seat passenger). The exclusion of glove box and console as storage options seems to support this mindset. IMO, the imposition of at least one locked container in this type of scenario helps to define the requirements just a little more rigidly than when a trunk is available.

1. Absent a Federal definition, I would expect a State to prosecute under their own definition, as the State is prosecuting for violating THEIR laws, not Federal laws. I my be wrong, however, my method of transport eliminates, or greatly reduces, the gray area. Also, the definition used by PA (and other States?) does not define a loaded magazine as a loaded firearm, since a magazine is not a firearm, but it does make a loaded magazine in the same container as a firearm an element of "loaded firearm".

2. Agreed, although see my #1 re: individual states.

3. Agreed. I believe the intent of the law is to impose hurdles to quick access to a loaded firearm, including stopping the vehicle and exiting it, or at least having to take several distinct actions or steps in order to have a loaded firearm in your hands.

[tl_3237]

From a 2011 thread regarding FOPA and loaded magazines.

As has already been established there is no on-point statutory definition. Below is some case law that is also not directly on-point but lends some inkling as to how a Federal court might interpret the loaded/unloaded enigma. Perhaps someone can provide update case law from the ensuing decade since I did my research.

A simpler solution follows immediately below ...

Neither could I when doing previous research. That being said, why would anyone balk at so simple a thing as unloading their magazines before taking an interstate trip through potential hostile territory to hedge their legal bet?

Let's assume the loaded magazine is NOT in the glove box since that alone would disqualify you from FOPA transport protection but is instead properly stowed per 18 USC 926A.


The intent of Congress was to remove the problematic issues attached to multi-state travels and the plethora of differing firearm laws in the traversed jurisdictions. Thus it would be reasonable to assume that 926A's 'unloaded' would follow that of some standardized Federal definition as opposed to varying as a function of the individual state where a prosecution was taking place - to do otherwise would frustrate 926A's intent. Unfortunately, though the terms 'loaded'/ 'unloaded' are used in many Federal statutes and case law, what is lacking are formalized legal definitions. There are, however, several cases from the Federal district and appeal circuit courts that indicate that a loaded magazine, other then in the firearm, does not render the firearm 'loaded'. From those reading I conjecture that the Federal courts would look at the situation you pose as an 'unloaded' firearm.

As to the FOPA transport protection (926A) applying in spite of a different state interpretation for loaded magazines remember that 926A is only an affirmative defense in STATE court. Basically you admit to violating a state firearm law but raise the Federal statute as a tolling of same. To be successful you must convince the STATE court to certify the applicable of 926A and that's where there's an uncertainly. Should you fail to garner that certification, upon conviction and unsuccessful STATE appeals, you could reasonably expect a favorable assignment of 926A protection once you enter the Federal appellant system - IMO.

Here are several Federal court cases, most if not all drug related and applying the firearm enhancement sentencing under 18 USC 924(c), that noted the presence of an 'unloaded' pistol in proximity to a 'loaded' magazine. Unfortunately none of these cases had the need to rule directly on the unloaded gun near a loaded magazine issue because the mere adjacency of a firearm to illegal drugs was the deterministic factor. As such you will not find anything other than the passing mentions excerpted below.

Although, as previously indicated, I can find no statutory or case law that defines loaded/unloaded what is interesting in these cases is that none of the courts saw fit to opine that their 'unloaded' pistol next to a 'loaded' magazine was anything other than 'unloaded'. This is what lead to my published hypothesis - " There are, however, several cases from the Federal district and appeal circuit courts that indicate that a loaded magazine, other then in the firearm, does not render the firearm 'loaded'. From those reading I conjecture that the Federal courts would look at the situation you pose as an 'unloaded' firearm."

Perhaps, in retrospect, I should have used 'intimate' rather than 'indicate' to better reflect the tenuous inference made but I feel it a reasonable interpretation.

Upon opening the box, Zwaryczuk discovered an unloaded .22 caliber automatic firearm, a fully loaded magazine, and some loose rounds of ammunition.
US v. Newton, 369 F. 3d 659 - Court of Appeals, 2nd Circuit 2004

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As to firearms, the PSI reported that a search of Paul Hoang's residence revealed a small, locked safe that contained a small amount of marijuana, a scale and other drug paraphernalia, and an unloaded .9 mm pistol with a loaded magazine.
US v. Pham, 463 F. 3d 1239 - Court of Appeals, 11th Circuit 2006

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The weapon, although unloaded, was wrapped along with a fully loaded magazine and was easily made ready for firing by simply inserting the magazine into the weapon.
US v. Case, 654 F. Supp. 2d 747 - Dist. Court, ED Tennessee 2009

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During the execution of a warrant to search an apartment under the control of the defendant, police discovered, inter alia, a briefcase which contained an unloaded semiautomatic handgun, a loaded magazine, ...
US v. Bass, Dist. Court, ED Pennsylvania 2010

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see also United States v. Bojorquez-Granillo, 83 Fed.Appx. 300, 305 (10th Cir. 2003) (affirming § 924(c) conviction where unloaded pistol, ammunition, and cocaine were located in hidden compartment of vehicle's dashboard); My note: the underlying case specified that there were loaded mags - "Police found one kilogram of cocaine wrapped in plastic and duct tape, a small package of cocaine, two loaded clips for a nine millimeter pistol, and a Baretta nine millimeter semiautomatic pistol in the compartment. "

US v. Burkley, 513 F. 3d 1183 - Court of Appeals, 10th Circuit 2008

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Officers recovered a loaded .38-caliber revolver, an unloaded .40-caliber semi-automatic handgun, and a magazine loaded with seven rounds of .40-caliber ammunition.
US v. Berrios, Court of Appeals, 3rd Circuit 2009

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Neither gun was loaded, but there were two loaded ammunition clips in the bag with the guns.
US v. BAUKMAN, Dist. Court, ED Pennsylvania 2010

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an unloaded 9 millimeter Taurus semi-automatic pistol and a loaded magazine,
US v. Iglesias, Dist. Court, ED Pennsylvania 2010

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