Why do you think PA resists allowing semi auto rifles for deer hunting?

[akley88]

I'm not really well-versed in this issue, and I have not read the 68 posts already here. But I know that
(a) we do have too many really dangerous hunters out there who shoot at "something brown" (it's never "something brown season"), and
(b) it's unlikely that you need a hunting semi-auto if your first shot hits your intended target, and
(c) most hunting takes place without any backstop, where the beaten zone is often trees or shrubs or people's houses or where people are hiking or driving or walking their dogs, and
(d) it's not worth one life to enable bad hunters to send more shots into occluded areas faster.

More rounds into homes or more dead people on the ground translate into a greater chance that hunting will be totally banned in larger and larger areas. Because for most, it's a hobby, and hobbies are worth zero innocent lives.

This argument does NOT transfer easily against self-defense weaponry. Semi-auto handguns and rifles and shotguns meet a need to defend against predators who are shooting back, who work pretty hard to surprise you, who often strike at night when they're hard to see, and they often attack in groups of 2 or more. The risks of semi-auto self-defense guns are balanced against the victim lives saved because the victim had the power to project a lot of rounds against people who are actively hiding while shooting at the victim. I'm not aware of any game animals who are shooting back.

Remember this moron hunter, last year and near me? What do you think THAT does for popular support for hunting within state parks?

https://www.buckscountycouriertimes....er/7829197002/

these arguments always crack me up. guess pa is the most dangerous state to hunt with the least educated and most unsafe hunters.
why not have mag limits for semi auto if its legalized

[cdi]

The homicidal azzhole that killed the fellow at Nockamixon is still lying, imo. I know that area fairly well. I think he was looking at the young lady through the telescope and in some bizarre fantasy moment put the reticle on the man*s head and pulled the trigger.
There is simply no way at that location he mistook the man*s head for a groundhog. His sentence was too light.

[GunLawyer001]

these arguments always crack me up. guess pa is the most dangerous state to hunt with the least educated and most unsafe hunters.
maybe we should restrict muzzleloaders and crossbows due to this
https://www.goerie.com/story/sports/...ts/9103751002/

Your argument addresses none of my points. "People die anyway so more deaths don't matter"? Seriously?

There's no Constitutional right to hunt, nor is there a right to hunt with a semi-auto. You have a right to keep and bear arms. Not hunt. Not shoot into the air on New Year's Eve.

Why would you need a semi-auto hunting rifle, unless your first shot went wild and you want a 2nd and 3rd try at flinging rounds in that general direction?

Unlike self-defense, there's NO argument that without semi-auto hunting rifles, people will die. However, there IS a good argument that giving poor shots faster firing times in woods and fields that are increasingly within range of rifle fire, will get people killed. Not millions, not thousands, probably not even hundreds of extra hunting deaths. But show me the argument that it's worth a dozen deaths of people who happen to be within a mile of hunting.

I see hunters argue that it's the fault of people killed, because they weren't wearing blaze orange while walking a trail, or sitting in a car, or standing in their own back yards. You eliminate asshole hunters who shoot blindly at motion, and then we can talk about shooting faster.

If you used the same rules at a gun range that junk shooters use in the woods, you'd be banned for life. "Be sure of your target" and "be sure of your backstop" are still rules, even during hunting season.

[akley88]

Your argument addresses none of my points. "People die anyway so more deaths don't matter"? Seriously?

There's no Constitutional right to hunt, nor is there a right to hunt with a semi-auto. You have a right to keep and bear arms. Not hunt. Not shoot into the air on New Year's Eve.

Why would you need a semi-auto hunting rifle, unless your first shot went wild and you want a 2nd and 3rd try at flinging rounds in that general direction?

Unlike self-defense, there's NO argument that without semi-auto hunting rifles, people will die. However, there IS a good argument that giving poor shots faster firing times in woods and fields that are increasingly within range of rifle fire, will get people killed. Not millions, not thousands, probably not even hundreds of extra hunting deaths. But show me the argument that it's worth a dozen deaths of people who happen to be within a mile of hunting.

I see hunters argue that it's the fault of people killed, because they weren't wearing blaze orange while walking a trail, or sitting in a car, or standing in their own back yards. You eliminate asshole hunters who shoot blindly at motion, and then we can talk about shooting faster.

If you used the same rules at a gun range that junk shooters use in the woods, you'd be banned for life. "Be sure of your target" and "be sure of your backstop" are still rules, even during hunting season.

so we should ban everything but single shot rifles for hunting? pumps, lever and bolt action with any kind of mag should be restricted because these all fit your concern of being dangerous due to being able to take a 2nd or 3rd shot, hell you can legally hunt with a pump rifle that will hold 100 round drum. should we change the license that a physical shooting test is also required to show proficiency. Should there be a ban in the use of any bottleneck rifle round and only allow straight wall cartridges or shotgun with slug only. all of those changes should make hunting safer cause no more high pressure long distance rounds.

special reg counties allow multiple deer to be taken at a time before being tagged. they must be tagged before moving. this was even proposed to be allowed state wide but i dont remember the status of it.

your not well versed as you said but then you imply that PA is filled with bad unsafe hunters. You can have your opinion that semi-autos are too dangerous to hunt with. id be fine with them being legalized and mag limits being added. i can see we arent going to agree on semi-auto for big game and thats fine. im just curious why its not an issue in all of the other states that allow it but it is in PA?

i think anyone who gets hurt in a hunting accident is bad and it should be investigated. if the hunter is at fault through unsafe actions they need to be charged. unsafe hunters should be reported every time someone sees them do something dangerous. in my experience the whole if its brown its down has been the older generation of hunters ive encountered but im sure it gets passed down.

[akley88]

As a note I'm not trying to be a smart ass with the above post. I'm just genuinely serious about those questions.

[Bang]

Let's consider hunting with the chamber empty, as is recommended (by some) for handgun carry, adding a measure of safety. (Not really).

A well-hit deer can often bolt and run for a distance, giving an impression that it needs to be hit again, now, before it gets out of sight and gets away...or lies down somewhere suffering for an extended period.

If a second shot is taken, I would propose a second shot from a rifle requiring no manual manipulation would have a higher likelihood of accurate aim with less tendency to wild miss.

It might be worthwhile looking up stats in states allowing semi-auto rifle deer hunting and see if the gut-instinct negativity is warranted.

[cdi]

Clearly Gunlawyer has never witnessed the fields of fire and carnage that can result from a platoon of straw hatted farmers on a drive equipped with the much feared Amish Machine Gun (the Remington 760).

Of states that permit rifle hunting, I think Pa. is the only one that prohibits semiautomatic actions. It*s not been a safety issue in the other states.

Hunters can be assholes. I*d rather have the rifle I*m most comfortable with in the field. I carried a full auto carbine and a shortened version of the M249 (belt fed 5.56mm) overseas. I wasn*t unsafe with them, having never shot anyone by accident.
Why would that change when hunting with a semi?

Semiautomatic actions have been proscribed in Pa. since 1907. Got to wonder why that is.

[akley88]

Clearly Gunlawyer has never witnessed the fields of fire and carnage that can result from a platoon of straw hatted farmers on a drive equipped with the much feared Amish Machine Gun (the Remington 760).

Of states that permit rifle hunting, I think Pa. is the only one that prohibits semiautomatic actions. It*s not been a safety issue in the other states.

Hunters can be assholes. I*d rather have the rifle I*m most comfortable with in the field. I carried a full auto carbine and a shortened version of the M249 (belt fed 5.56mm) overseas. I wasn*t unsafe with them, having never shot anyone by accident.
Why would that change when hunting with a semi?

Semiautomatic actions have been proscribed in Pa. since 1907. Got to wonder why that is.

Maybe he has seen the damage those Amish drives do. The groups I've seen have shot at anything that moves and then checks if it's legal afterwards.

[JenniferG]

During rifle season I steer clear of the woods. Even with bolt action, lever and pump action rifles PA deer hunters are some of the worst offenders of firearm and hunting safety rules. I was shot by a PA hunter with a 20 gauge shotgun and I assure you there is nothing about me in size and or shape that I look like a quail. Having said that though if you want semi auto firearms for deer season have at it. Where I live you can only use shotgun anyways and my biggest concern there is "hunters" using buck shot. Incidentally the deer when deer season is open are not brown, they are a gray winter color. They've already switched to that color.

The week before deer season on my side yard.

[Bang]

Yeah. Y'gotta be nuts to hunt in PA:

Hunting-Related Shooting Incidents (HRSIs)
2018
Introduction
A hunting-related shooting incident (HRSI) is defined as any occurrence when a person is injured as
the result of the discharge of a firearm or bow and arrow during actual hunting or furtaking activities.
Often these incidents result from failing to follow some very basic safety rules. While one incident is
one too many, the marked decline of shooting incidents can be attributed to the success of hunter
education training and mandatory use of fluorescent orange clothing.

Records dating back to 1915 have been kept by the Pennsylvania Game Commission in order to track
these incidents. For comparative purposes, the Game Commission tracks trends in hunting-related
shooting incidents by measuring the accident rate per 100,000 participants. In Pennsylvania, hunting
related shooting incidents have declined by nearly 80% since hunter education training began in 1959.

Included in this report are a series of charts, graphs, and related data that summarize records for
incidents that were investigated by Pennsylvania Game Commission Wildlife Conservation Officers for
this reporting year. Refer to these items for specific information. Overall, a look at these records will
show that hunting is safe and getting safer.

Year-end Summary - 2018

During 2018, there were a total of 27 HRSIs recorded, one of which was fatal. This number represents
an increase in the total number of incidents reported during 2017 (24). The incident rate (expressed
as the number of incidents per 100,000 participants based on general license sales) was 3.16, which
was an increase from the 2017 incident rate of 2.73. More than half of incidents reported in 2018 were
self-inflicted (59%).

An analysis of offenders* ages revealed that individuals ages 16 and younger had an incident rate of
0.47 per 100,000 participants, an increase compared to the 0.22 incident rate in 2017. Hunters in the
age range of 17 to 50 had an incident rate of 0.75 per 100,000 participants, while those over 50 years
of age had an incident rate of 0.94. A total of 7 incidents, or 35% of all 2018 incidents with an identified
offender, resulted from individuals with 10 or fewer years of hunting experience. This represents an
increase from 17% in 2017.

A look at reported weather conditions shows that 8 (44%) of incidents took place on days with clear
conditions, while 6 (33%) of the remaining incidents occurred during overcast conditions. 4 (22%)
occurred during inclement weather, including foggy, rainy, and snowy conditions.
Additional environmental factors, such as time of day and cover density, show the majority (79%) of
incidents occurred during daylight hours. Dense cover was involved in 22% of incidents, while cover
considered light accounted for 67%, and no cover accounted for 48%. HRSIs occurring in locations
identified as wooded (67%) and field (19%), accounted for the majority of recorded incidents for 2018.

In 2018, the primary cause of hunting-related shooting incidents was Unintended Discharge (67%),
with 18 incidents reported. The second most common cause, Victim In Line Of Fire (19%), fell far
behind with just 5 incidents reported. Although the numbers for Victim in Line of Fire for 2018 is identical
to those in 2017, those for Unintentional Discharge increased significantly (from 25% in 2017). An
important note is that only one incident identified by the cause *Shot for Game*, the lowest number
ever recorded for this category.

In terms of species being hunted when incidents occurred, deer (12 incidents) and small game (10
incidents) led the way, followed by bear and spring turkey (both having 2 incidents). The deer
incidents represent nearly half (44%) of the 2018 incident total, while small game incidents represent
37%, an increase from 38% and 21% respectively in 2017. Spring turkey saw the most significant
change in terms of percentage of the incident total, decreasing from 33% in 2017 to just 7% (2
incidents) in 2018.

A total of 33,315 students (25,088 traditional course students and 8,227 online HTE students) were
certified through a Basic Hunter-Trapper Education course conducted during 2018. This educational
effort is spearheaded by a dedicated corps of 1,904 volunteer instructors teaching Pennsylvania*s
hunters basic hunting safety and advanced hunting skills. The 2018 student total represents an
increase of 849 in the total number of students certified compared to the totals for 2017.

The year 2018 was the sixth successive year that fewer than 30 HRSI*s were reported. This
accomplishment may be attributed to the institution of mandatory hunter education in Pennsylvania and
the effort that continues to improve the safety of our sport. Volunteer hunter education instructors,
student graduates, and the entire hunting public should be congratulated for continuing to make hunting
an enjoyable and safe activitity.