Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #171
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    Default Re: Why do you think PA resists allowing semi auto rifles for deer hunting?

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    Some of us are way more proficient with semiautomatic rifles because we shoot them all the time vs the Fudd that doesn't even bother to see if his rifle is still zeroed before taking to the woods. I challenge you to back up your last statement and name the states that ban semiautomatic rifles entirely......
    States that ban the kinds of rifles being discussed in this thread:
    California
    New Jersey
    Connecticut
    Hawaii
    Maryland
    Massachusetts
    New York
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  2. #172
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    Default Re: Why do you think PA resists allowing semi auto rifles for deer hunting?

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    States that ban the kinds of rifles being discussed in this thread:
    California
    New Jersey
    Connecticut
    Hawaii
    Maryland
    Massachusetts
    New York
    All anti gun states
    Sticks and stones will break my bones but hollow points expand on impact.

  3. #173
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    Default Re: Why do you think PA resists allowing semi auto rifles for deer hunting?

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    States that ban the kinds of rifles being discussed in this thread:
    California
    Not even wasting my time looking this one up
    New Jersey
    Nor this one

    Connecticut
    *Legal Firearms: *..Rifled or smoothbore barrels allowed. Centerfire rifle 6mm (.243 caliber) or larger or revolver .357 caliber or larger may be used if the landholding is 10 or more acres and the landowner has authorized use on the consent form.*
    While there is an *Assault Rifle* ban in this state, I can find not about regular semi autos being prohibited from hunting, with the caveat of it being done on private property.


    Hawaii
    *Legal Hunting Animals and Weapons: When hunting with dogs where permitted, hunters may use*..any rifle using at least a 0.22 caliber magnum load or center fire cartridge;**.When hunting without dogs, hunters may use any rifle with a muzzle energy rating of 1,200 foot pounds or more;*
    Seems like they are ok with semis here, however there are a shit tons of regulations with getting guns to the islands


    Maryland
    As far as I could find straight walled center fire cartridges are allowed, so a *featureless* AR-15 chambered in .50 Beowolf, for example, would be legal.

    Massachusetts
    It seems MA doesn*t allow for any center fire rifle hunting

    New York
    *It is illegal to hunt big game with:**.* **...an autoloading firearm that holds more than 6 shells* sounds like a Benelli R1 would be fine here
    I am not a lawyer so my replies in red are not legal advice, just what I can find with minimal Google searching. I only took the time to reply because I recently read an article about PA being the last state to legalize semi autos for hunting with the caveat that it is only small game/fur taking or whatever it is. I didn*t believe the article so I looked up New York and Maryland then and was surprised to learn that if you can overcome the hurdles of owning a semi auto in commie states, you can hunt with them.

    I wouldn*t consider myself a hunter (haven*t been out in over a decade) so I don*t know if my opinion matters, but I fail to see how a handful of dumbasses, who have no regard for laws/ethics, should dictate the laws/regulations for ever other law abiding hunter.
    Last edited by spartakis252; November 24th, 2022 at 01:43 AM. Reason: Spelling

  4. #174
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    Default Re: Why do you think PA resists allowing semi auto rifles for deer hunting?

    Quote Originally Posted by spartakis252 View Post
    I am not a lawyer so my replies in red are not legal advice, just what I can find with minimal Google searching. I only took the time to reply because I recently read an article about PA being the last state to legalize semi autos for hunting with the caveat that it is only small game/fur taking or whatever it is. I didn*t believe the article so I looked up New York and Maryland then and was surprised to learn that if you can overcome the hurdles of owning a semi auto in commie states, you can hunt with them.

    I wouldn*t consider myself a hunter (haven*t been out in over a decade) so I don*t know if my opinion matters, but I fail to see how a handful of dumbasses, who have no regard for laws/ethics, should dictate the laws/regulations for ever other law abiding hunter.
    I applaud your efforts to include facts in this discussion.

    However, in addition to "hunting" laws, you also have to look up their adoption of the expired Federal "assault weapon ban", because if you can't even own an AR-15, then they don't have to expressly ban your hunting with one. For example, New York Penal Law Sec. 265.02, Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Third Degree, includes post-2013 possession of what they define as an assault weapon (here: https://newyork.public.law/laws/n.y....section_265.00 )

    If you look around, you'll notice that PA is an oasis of marginally pro-gun folks in the midst of a sea of hoplophobics. NY to the north, NJ to the east, Maryland to the south, down to DC, up to New England. We don't just have to fear Philly's insanity, America's population is mobile, and we're getting transplants from the adjacent insane asylums. New Yorkers are flooding the Poconos with their feral yutes and short-sighted politics. Hell, we're getting tens of thousands of Guatemalans and Venezuelans and other peasantry with unsophisticated views of natural rights that don't exactly jibe with ours.

    I admit that my views are tinged by the young man who had his head blown off a few miles down the road from me, by some licensed moron who fired at "something" through shrubs and trees. One shot, one kill, and we have to assume that the majority of idiot shots just hit trees or barns or dirt, but some percentage hit people. Multiply the number of negligent shots, more people die. How many is OK so that you can enjoy your sport? How many deaths would it take for a built-up state to ban all hunting (which is NOT an enumerated Constitutional right).

    People living near hunting areas do get their homes drilled by negligent rounds. I'm aware of similar stories where nobody died, but not due to the care of the shooters, just the small percentage of human flesh present in the unknown non-backstops behind whatever they thought they were shooting at, frequently "something brown". I remember a woman in Florida who was killed when some asshat on a boat test fired his gun into the water at a flat angle, and the round stopped a mile or so away in her head.

    Our USE of guns is a fit subject for regulation, while keeping and bearing them is not open to "reasonable restrictions". That seems fair, and sane. You should be able to own a .90 caliber rifle without restrictions, but you should NOT be allowed to fire it generally in the direction of downtown. You should be able to own a minigun, but not practice with it from your subdivision roof.

    So why should we support anyone who wants the speed of semi-autos for sport hunting? The deer, unlike gangs of home invaders, aren't shooting back. The exigent circumstances of defending your life are not present when trying to bag a buck. The only thing I see is that poor shots who are in too much of a hurry to get a solid sight picture and observe the backdrops, will be able to multiply their shitty shooting by a factor of 3. People have successfully hunted all sorts of animals for hundreds of years with single shot rifles, why the sudden need for fast corrective shots?

    I won't mock & silence anyone for believing that we have a sacred right to use any gun for any purpose, and that collateral damage is just the price of freedom; because I'm not a spineless Democrat, swarming over any sign of dissent with hatred and mockery and bullying. When I disagree, I say so, and I say why. I think we have the right to own new machineguns, armor piercing rounds, and mags as large as we can lift or wheel around. I also believe we have to be reasonable about how we USE guns, and try to minimize the deaths of dogs and people walking them, and people driving by.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  5. #175
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    Default Re: Why do you think PA resists allowing semi auto rifles for deer hunting?

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    States that ban the kinds of rifles being discussed in this thread:
    California
    New Jersey
    Connecticut
    Hawaii
    Maryland
    Massachusetts
    New York
    None of those states "entirely ban semiautomatic " as your quote states. They ban cosmetic features not the rifle itself. I know people in both new York and California that hunt with compliant semiautomatic rifles. Threads like this show why as gun owners will keep losing because some among us will sell us out because of feelings not facts.

  6. #176
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    Default Re: Why do you think PA resists allowing semi auto rifles for deer hunting?

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    None of those states "entirely ban semiautomatic " as your quote states. They ban cosmetic features not the rifle itself. I know people in both new York and California that hunt with compliant semiautomatic rifles. Threads like this show why as gun owners will keep losing because some among us will sell us out because of feelings not facts.
    This is what I was thinking. I know someone in NY who owns and has hunted with their version of the AR platform. It's ugly, but still effective.

  7. #177
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    Default Re: Why do you think PA resists allowing semi auto rifles for deer hunting?

    The states that allow semiautomatic firearms for hunting are not running red with the blood of innocents.
    The guy that shot the person at Nockamixon was clearly up to something other than shooting at *something brown*.

    I*m familiar with the area. The only way that shot makes sense to me is the perp was looking through the telescope at the pretty girl and finger banging the trigger. I can*t prove that, but it*s the only scenario that makes sense to me given the location.

    The shooter fired only one shot and then scooted. Would he have done a mag dump if he*d had a semi? I don*t know but I doubt it. Unsafe hunters are out there doesn*t really matter what guns they use. If it did, we would see it reflected in the death and injury stats from other states.

    Ffs, punish me for what I do, not what I might do.
    Crusader's local #556 South Central Asia chapter

  8. #178
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    Default Re: Why do you think PA resists allowing semi auto rifles for deer hunting?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdi View Post
    The states that allow semiautomatic firearms for hunting are not running red with the blood of innocents.
    The guy that shot the person at Nockamixon was clearly up to something other than shooting at *something brown*.

    I*m familiar with the area. The only way that shot makes sense to me is the perp was looking through the telescope at the pretty girl and finger banging the trigger. I can*t prove that, but it*s the only scenario that makes sense to me given the location.

    The shooter fired only one shot and then scooted. Would he have done a mag dump if he*d had a semi? I don*t know but I doubt it. Unsafe hunters are out there doesn*t really matter what guns they use. If it did, we would see it reflected in the death and injury stats from other states.

    Ffs, punish me for what I do, not what I might do.
    This is nothing at all like banning possession of AR-15's for the law-abiding. We have a right to keep and bear arms that are suitable for defending ourselves from armed criminals and enemies foreign and domestic. That's a natural right, as well as an enumerated right, and I've fought for decades to vindicate that right.

    I agree that pointless restrictions are a sign of bad government, but I'm not sure that it's "punishment" to hunt like your dad and granddad and great-granddad did. Hell, your great-great-great granddad
    would marvel that you can use cartridges and scopes and STILL not bag anything, when he had to ram musket balls down unrifled barrels and somehow managed to keep his family fed. Are we all that much less skilled today?

    People die from hunting accidents and negligence every year (I honestly can't find how many, I'm seeing sources claiming as low as 11 and as high as 775, which seems wrong), and it's almost always some innocent man, woman or child getting killed, not the asshole shooter. Do you disagree? And how many of those deaths are "OK"? How many of the hundreds of non-fatal accidental shootings are OK?

    15 million hunting licenses are sold nationwide every year, so if less than 100 people are killed, that's not a bad safety record, unless you're one of the dead or their family. A lot more than that get wounded, though, and that's probably a bad thing.

    Nobody has explained the need for a semi-auto WHILE HUNTING, and yes, "need" applies to hunting, it's not in the Constitution. You don't have to prove "need" for a Constitutional right. You do when the govt restricts you in other things, especially inherently dangerous things like driving or flying planes or discharging firearms. Do a basic risk-benefit analysis, and put something substantial in the "benefit" column, something better than "everybody else does it".

    Let's make it simpler for everyone: Someone explain why it's OK to limit the number of rounds in your gun, but not OK to bar AR-15's. BOTH seem designed to limit the number of rounds fired by inept hunters into an increasingly large cone of "the target is somewhere in there", while the hunting grounds shrink and civilization (and people) encroach. Or possibly, there are arguments why 30 rounds loaded and ready to go would be necessary for full enjoyment of the hunting experience.

    If it's all about ergonomics and comfort, how about allowing semi-autos but with only 1 round in the gun at a time? Would that work, or do folks "need" that second and third shot as they run through the woods trying to nail the only buck they saw today?

    In the Larry Niven books, they hunt with laser rifles in the future, and even in the fictional future the govt mandates that "hunting laser rifles" only fire brief pulses, because it's hardly sporting to use a sword of infinite length to just chop up deer.

    I have to ask, while hunting, how often are you shooting from 2 miles away from the nearest home or road, and how often can you hear cars or see roofs of houses? And how often to do make sure you have a solid berm behind the animal before you shoot? I'm guessing "never", unless you happen to be shooting downhill and there's ground past the target.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  9. #179
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    Default Re: Why do you think PA resists allowing semi auto rifles for deer hunting?

    Little of what I posted is reflected in your response. My points were the rate of injury, death and property damage is not off the chart in states that allow semiautomatic arms for hunting, at least not as far as I can find. Surely that would be the case if semiautomatic arms were the bright line that changed hunting.

    My second point was the shooter at Nockamixon was not using a semiautomatic arm. He was a feckless shithead that was violating hunter safety protocol in multiple ways. The firearm type he used had nothing to do with what he did. I*m betting he had issues outside of shooting an innocent person at the park.

    Pa. is probably on track to bring in semiautomatic actions for big game at some point. I don*t think we will see an increase in casualties or property damage that can be attributed to the type of firearm used. I say that because the asshole hunters are already out there and also looking at the results from the other states.
    Crusader's local #556 South Central Asia chapter

  10. #180
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    Default Re: Why do you think PA resists allowing semi auto rifles for deer hunting?

    Why do you guys NEED to hunt with one of the least expensive firearm options out there?
    Why do you NEED to hunt with one of the lightest and compact firearm options out there?
    Why do you NEED to hunt with one of the most popular firearms in the world with nearly limitless parts options?
    Why do you NEED to hunt with the firearm you're most proficient with?

    Think of the children! FEELINGS MATTER!!! AR15s have no place in muh woods!
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    μολ ν λαβέ
    What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!

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