Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
    Join Date
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    Ercildoun, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: 12 guage 00 buck question

    Remington 870 Police pre bankruptcy. I like the wood stocks for this style of shotgun. That tactical tony crap looks like shit on a shotgun. If it's too heavy for ya get some pink plastic stocks then. Oh yeah, one other thing. Get a decent shell follower for your shot gun. I use the S&J Hardware Type 2 follower in my defensive style shotguns and the type 3 in my field guns.

    https://sjhardware.us/product-catego...100-and-11-87/





    Winchester 1300 mid 1980's. It came with a 28" barrel and I changed it over to the then available 22" barrel with Winchoke tubes. Hiking through the woods with a barrel as long as a flag pole is some tedious going especially with a bag of deeks on your back. It was my original goose shooter and it's been used to shoot a fair amount of goose.

    Corruption is the default behavior of government officials. JPC

  2. #22
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    Richboro, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: 12 guage 00 buck question

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceballs View Post
    Just because it might work doesn't mean you can count on it to work reliably in a life or death situation.

    Here is ballistic gel testing of bird vs buck

    https://www.ammoman.com/blog/birdshot-for-home-defense/
    Keep looking for a meaningful comparison to show why birdshot will bounce off someone. And and I take it you didn't watch any of the videos. Who cares if Buckshot penetrates 21 inches. Thats way too much overpenetration to be used in a house and doesn't dump all of its energy into your target. And you are comparing it to small 7 1/2 shot at longer distances again. Find some penetration tests for the 4 or 6 shot that is recommended and get back to us.

    Birdshot is just another option that should not be instantly dismissed. Depending on how your bedrooms are situated or in you live in an apartment hitting an unintended target is a real threat.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    Bedford
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    Default Re: 12 guage 00 buck question

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceballs View Post
    All I wanted to know was how to make the non flight control shells group tighter for other purposes (range fun, further target, etc)
    I think you have your answer, use the Remingtons for HD and use the flight controls for your range fun, further target, etc..
    SigGendered

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Reading, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: 12 guage 00 buck question

    You may also want to pattern #1 and #4 Buck less over penetration but still lethal and more pellets down range . I currently have been considering switching to #1 in my HD shotty. Just need time to hit the range a pattern . FWIW like a few others have said unless in a very small apartment stay away from bird shot for HD I would only use it if I had nothing else left.

    6E0EE7B2-0447-4A59-9253-F7EC6E6852E6.jpg
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    Fortuna audaces iuvat
    "Who is John Galt?"
    Deus Vult

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: 12 guage 00 buck question

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceballs View Post
    Just because it might work doesn't mean you can count on it to work reliably in a life or death situation.

    Here is ballistic gel testing of bird vs buck

    https://www.ammoman.com/blog/birdshot-for-home-defense/

    An intruder wearing a heavy jacket is likely to stop a good amount of bird shot. It's CERTAINLY going to slow it down which if going to further limit it's penetration into the chest cavity.

    Meanwhile buckshot is going to penetration. It's going to kill the bad guy. A lot.

    And with a properly set up shot gun or using proper loads like the Federal with the flight control that was consistently putting 2 inch groups at HD distances with no flyers, why would you choose a maybe round like birdshot over a "Yup. No doubt about it." load like buck?

    I may be new to understanding how to tighten groups using chokes but I know enough about would channels to know that 8 rounds that go through the strenum and almost to the back of a torso is going to be more effective than 100 rounds that go into 1 inch or less.

    Yes. The birdshot could cause you to bleed out or cause enough damage that you eventually sucumb. But buck is going to remove an intruder's heart from the equation instantly. The threat to my house will end immediately.

    For an intruder who stands a good chance of being high and able to ignore pain, I want something he can't ignore. No amount of heroin and bath salts let's the body ignore a total loss of blood pressure.
    A low powered birdshot round doesn't have much more energy than a trap round. At extreme close range with a full choke, a trap load will still make a quarter sized hole through two sheets of 5/8" plywood.

    There is a big difference in kinetic energy amongst the various birdshot rounds. The smaller the shot size, the quicker it loses energy at distance. I would imagine that a 3" magnum max dram #2 or BB would be every bit as devastating as buckshot at closer ranges, but it kicks like a pissed off draught horse.

    I've seen studies that say #4 buck (not #4 birdshot) is best for stopping human threats. I don't think there is that much difference in effectiveness with any sized buckshot round.
    Accuse your enemy of what you are doing as you are doing it to create confusion -Karl Marx

  6. #26
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    Jan 2019
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    Default Re: 12 guage 00 buck question

    Quote Originally Posted by RockIsland View Post
    I've seen studies that say #4 buck (not #4 birdshot) is best for stopping human threats. I don't think there is that much difference in effectiveness with any sized buckshot round.
    #00 is easier to cast...
    SigGendered

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
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    Fayetteville, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: 12 guage 00 buck question

    Personally, I pattern my shotguns a 25 yards. If a load isn't patterning at 7 yards, you need to toss it immediately. There are a lot of factors. The load obviously, the barrel, the choke, sighting system, ect. The best thing is just try the different loads in YOUR gun, see what works best.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    next to my neighbor, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: 12 guage 00 buck question

    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferG View Post
    Remington 870 Police pre bankruptcy. I like the wood stocks for this style of shotgun. That tactical tony crap looks like shit on a shotgun. If it's too heavy for ya get some pink plastic stocks then. Oh yeah, one other thing. Get a decent shell follower for your shot gun. I use the S&J Hardware Type 2 follower in my defensive style shotguns and the type 3 in my field guns.

    https://sjhardware.us/product-catego...100-and-11-87/





    Winchester 1300 mid 1980's. It came with a 28" barrel and I changed it over to the then available 22" barrel with Winchoke tubes. Hiking through the woods with a barrel as long as a flag pole is some tedious going especially with a bag of deeks on your back. It was my original goose shooter and it's been used to shoot a fair amount of goose.

    Heres my 870 police magnum, compliments of landsdowne PD. Just tore it apart and cleaned/oiled it. Got this and 250rnds of 00buck for 250.00
    about 15 years ago.

    FJB

  9. #29
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    Sep 2006
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    Somewhere, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: 12 guage 00 buck question


  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
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    Womelsdorf, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: 12 guage 00 buck question

    In my experience, I have found that using #7 or #8 hunting loads for the first 3-4 shots works best. This lessens the chance that you will shoot through the walls in your house and impact the neighbors. Saving the )) for the last shot or two loaded in the gun will handle an escalated situation. I also have 5 reloads that go with my home defense shotgun, and they are USGI (Winchester) 00 buckshot. Just my two cents worth based on experience.

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