Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Question Concerning Keeping Bill of Sales/Receipts...

    Quote Originally Posted by sbmania View Post
    So if they knew the FFL sold the handgun to the girl, I wonder why did they bothered tracing backwards to you to verify you sold it to the FFL? Seems like all the crap happened after it left your hands. Had you not been able to verify selling the handgun to the FFL either because you lost the receipt or forgot, does that change the case against the girl/felon boyfriend?
    It could be to see if Noah had sold it to her just transferring through the ffl

  2. #22
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    East side of the ANF, Pennsylvania
    (Elk County)
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    Default Re: Question Concerning Keeping Bill of Sales/Receipts...

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    It could be to see if Noah had sold it to her just transferring through the ffl
    That's a legitimate line of inquiry as the Brits would say, but in the actual event the dates don't match. I sold it to the FFL, then (a week or month) later the FFL sold it to the woman. And PICS gave their numerical blessing.

    Noah
    Wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times.

  3. #23
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    Feb 2007
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    Glenmoore, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Question Concerning Keeping Bill of Sales/Receipts...

    I have often wondered what happens if there is a court order for someone to give up their firearms. Have the police or courts ever used the sales database and made people account for their handguns? I have sold handguns to FFLs decades ago and honestly couldn’t say which ones I sold each gun to.

  4. #24
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    Phoenixville, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Question Concerning Keeping Bill of Sales/Receipts...

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    It could be to see if Noah had sold it to her just transferring through the ffl
    Let's say hypothetically Noah actually DID sell it to the woman but insisted according to law that it be transferred through an FFL. Even if the woman (presumably unbeknownst to Noah) was a felon or planned to give it subsequently to a felon, how does that come back on Noah? The FFL is responsible to perform the background check to make sure the purchaser is legal - not Noah - so why does he get blowback from this? Otherwise, why use an FFL?

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Question Concerning Keeping Bill of Sales/Receipts...

    If he had sold it to the woman knowing it was for her felon boyfriend he could possibly be harrassed/charged the dealer only knows what happens in the store the bf may not even be present in the store. All this is hypothetical and isn't what actually happened

  6. #26
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    Mohnton, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Question Concerning Keeping Bill of Sales/Receipts...

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    To take any property they need a warrant, or have reasonable suspicion that it is illegal to possess. And since more than likely the guns will be inside out of plain view, and that you will likely be talking to them from your doorway as they are outside - I cant see how they would know what you had.

    You're overthinking something that just isn't going to happen. ...unless you really aren't one of the "good guys", and are in fact one of the folks that have a habit of supplying guns to folks who otherwise couldn't legally buy a gun. (NOT SAYING YOU ARE LIKE THAT, JUST MAKING AN EXAMPLE)


    I've probably owned close to 200 different guns in my life time. Bought most at gun dealers, but many privately. Also under the laws of PA, NC, WV, and FL when I lived in those places for varying numbers of months/years, respectively. Bought/sold handguns and long guns privately in FL(no paperwork required). Bought/sold long guns in NC and WV privately(no paperwork required). Bought/sold handguns and long guns in PA(paperwork only required on the "firearms").

    I presently own 50 guns, right on the money, having inheriting about 16-17 of them just recently. That leaves about close to 150 guns of that 200 mentioned above that I've sold/given away over the years. ....there is no ATF knocking at my door. And only once did I have a local PD visit after a multi-handgun purchase(I posted about that in some other thread).


    I couldn't even begin to remember to who all I've sold/given what.. I have an idea as to some or most, but not all. And I'm not sweating shit about anything.
    You were a bit young in the 70s so you probably aren't aware of Jimmy Carters atf. He weponized it just as Biden is. Your opinion that they won't go after the innocent doesn't jive with history. It's the whole reason the laws on guns are complicated and vague.
    The Gun is the Badge of a Free Man

  7. #27
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    Oct 2006
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    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
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    Default Re: Question Concerning Keeping Bill of Sales/Receipts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunsnwater View Post
    You were a bit young in the 70s so you probably aren't aware of Jimmy Carters atf. He weponized it just as Biden is. Your opinion that they won't go after the innocent doesn't jive with history. It's the whole reason the laws on guns are complicated and vague.
    You still aren't required to keep receipts.

    The ATF doesn't investigate the average Joe for normal day to day gun purchases/ownership. For them to get involved there is typically something else going on, like straw purchases, someone providing proof of you owning unregistered NFA, you commit a violation GCA that they are empowered to enforce, or they get called in by local/state police to assist on investigating a crime that has taken place(like these mass shootings).
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland

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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Question Concerning Keeping Bill of Sales/Receipts...

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    You still aren't required to keep receipts.

    The ATF doesn't investigate the average Joe for normal day to day gun purchases/ownership. For them to get involved there is typically something else going on, like straw purchases, someone providing proof of you owning unregistered NFA, you commit a violation GCA that they are empowered to enforce, or they get called in by local/state police to assist on investigating a crime that has taken place(like these mass shootings).
    https://youtu.be/OFE9Yl2X57A

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Question Concerning Keeping Bill of Sales/Receipts...

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    Atf bullying owner into showing guns because of multiple sales record....

  10. #30
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    Mar 2022
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    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Question Concerning Keeping Bill of Sales/Receipts...

    Happend to me last year. There was a shooting in Pittsburgh with a gun I sold to a dealer a couple years before, and local detective came to my house and told me a firearm in my name was recovered. During the pandemic the PSP was so backlogged with the handgun registration that is was still registered to me. I showed them the receipt of when I sold it and they left without incident. I probably trigger multiple handgun sale reports a couple time a year and trade alot, so I always keep all my records.

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