Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Violation of the UFA in Philadelphia (Big Surprise)

    Hey, everyone. Been a while since I posted, but my understanding is that city officials (in Philly, as the title indicates) cannot prohibit constituents from legally carrying firearms in public spaces (if they are licensed) for any reason. I cannot seem to find any exceptions in the UFA regarding festivals, special events, or even private use of public land (which is dubious itself and legally questionable to begin with).

    Is this, as I believe, a significant violation of PA resident's 2nd amendment rights and, therefore, a "suable" offense?

    I have included a link to the festival, and will copy and paste the specific verbiage in question.

    https://welcomeamerica.com/faq/?fbcl...XrhyETXwTngwc0

    "What am I not allowed to bring to festival events?
    In coordination with the City of Philadelphia and for the safety of event attendees and staff, the following items are prohibited:

    * Weapons and contraband of any kind regardless of permitting, e.g. Right-to-Carry permits will not be honored, and entry will be denied."

    What do y'all think?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Violation of the UFA in Philadelphia (Big Surprise)

    Quote Originally Posted by LordTobias View Post
    Hey, everyone. Been a while since I posted, but my understanding is that city officials (in Philly, as the title indicates) cannot prohibit constituents from legally carrying firearms in public spaces (if they are licensed) for any reason. I cannot seem to find any exceptions in the UFA regarding festivals, special events, or even private use of public land (which is dubious itself and legally questionable to begin with).

    Is this, as I believe, a significant violation of PA resident's 2nd amendment rights and, therefore, a "suable" offense?

    I have included a link to the festival, and will copy and paste the specific verbiage in question.

    https://welcomeamerica.com/faq/?fbcl...XrhyETXwTngwc0

    "What am I not allowed to bring to festival events?
    In coordination with the City of Philadelphia and for the safety of event attendees and staff, the following items are prohibited:

    * Weapons and contraband of any kind regardless of permitting, e.g. Right-to-Carry permits will not be honored, and entry will be denied."

    What do y'all think?

    If someone leases the property from the City for an event, I would assume whomever leased the property can say no weapons.
    Donít like me ???? Tough, I donít give a flying f@@k about ya.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Violation of the UFA in Philadelphia (Big Surprise)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggies Coach View Post
    If someone leases the property from the City for an event, I would assume whomever leased the property can say no weapons.
    Would that actually apply to public lands, particularly public streets? I know the DMV tries this, claiming the landlord they're renting from doesn't permit firearms, thereby trying to use word fuckery to create a loophole for themselves to ignore the law.

    I feel like it's a point of contention that a city council can arbitrarily lease public streets for private use to begin with, but does that change the legal definition of the land therein (from public to private)? Is there a section of the NFA that is clear about this, and I've just missed it? Alternatively, is there case law that anyone knows about that I can look up for clear examples?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Violation of the UFA in Philadelphia (Big Surprise)

    Sounds like a wholly privately funded event. I'm not familiar with the specific event locations, but an interesting question would arise if one wanted to access or pass through a public space without actually being a participant of whatever "event" is occurring. Some type of street fair comes to mind, where one might wish to patronize a local business within an area that is cordoned off from usual vehicle traffic, etc. because of some "event" that spans a couple of blocks.

    Likewise "public" parks come to mind. If they can be leased for private use, and thus have lessees wishes imposed during that time, what are the limits? What's to keep wealthy individuals from leasing the space long-term, specifically with the intent to create gun free zones?
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Violation of the UFA in Philadelphia (Big Surprise)

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    Sounds like a wholly privately funded event. I'm not familiar with the specific event locations, but an interesting question would arise if one wanted to access or pass through a public space without actually being a participant of whatever "event" is occurring. Some type of street fair comes to mind, where one might wish to patronize a local business within an area that is cordoned off from usual vehicle traffic, etc. because of some "event" that spans a couple of blocks.

    Likewise "public" parks come to mind. If they can be leased for private use, and thus have lessees wishes imposed during that time, what are the limits? What's to keep wealthy individuals from leasing the space long-term, specifically with the intent to create gun free zones?
    Tonight*s concerts and fireworks are a one night event produced & promoted by a private corporation, free of charge to the public, with limited access. There are no through ways. There are two controlled entrances. While it is held on public land, it is a private entity running it and they have their own rules. There are no private or public businesses contained inside the event that would be negatively affected by keeping someone out.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Violation of the UFA in Philadelphia (Big Surprise)

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    Tonight*s concerts and fireworks are a one night event produced & promoted by a private corporation, free of charge to the public, with limited access. There are no through ways. There are two controlled entrances. While it is held on public land, it is a private entity running it and they have their own rules. There are no private or public businesses contained inside the event that would be negatively affected by keeping someone out.
    Fair enough, but is that the case for all series events, that ran from June 19th until today?
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Violation of the UFA in Philadelphia (Big Surprise)

    Quote Originally Posted by LordTobias View Post
    Would that actually apply to public lands, particularly public streets? I know the DMV tries this, claiming the landlord they're renting from doesn't permit firearms, thereby trying to use word fuckery to create a loophole for themselves to ignore the law.

    I feel like it's a point of contention that a city council can arbitrarily lease public streets for private use to begin with, but does that change the legal definition of the land therein (from public to private)? Is there a section of the NFA that is clear about this, and I've just missed it? Alternatively, is there case law that anyone knows about that I can look up for clear examples?
    There are numerous incidents of public land being closed to the public or even private land that is open to the public with certain rules ( usually every private business)

    We just had something almost similar with the Philadelphia Flower Show being held at FDR Park which I believe is still under the control of the Fairmount Park Commission. It was fenced in, with controlled limited access and a list of prohibited items, including firearms.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Violation of the UFA in Philadelphia (Big Surprise)

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    Fair enough, but is that the case for all series events, that ran from June 19th until today?
    No. This is a unique event. Most of the others are not as large as this one and are wide open to the public. Like the parade and Hoagie Fest I believe.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Violation of the UFA in Philadelphia (Big Surprise)

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    What's to keep wealthy individuals from leasing the space long-term, specifically with the intent to create gun free zones?
    I would expect "liability" to be one thing preventing this from happening.

    You get beat up or killed in a public park, you've got no one to sue except the (likely not so rich) perp. If the same happens in a "private" park (especially one thats explicitly preventing you from protecting yourself), then I'm pretty sure it's cha-cha-cha-ching!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Violation of the UFA in Philadelphia (Big Surprise)

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    **What's to keep wealthy individuals from leasing the space long-term, specifically with the intent to create gun free zones?
    Quote Originally Posted by Royinmontco View Post
    I would expect "liability" to be one thing preventing this from happening.

    You get beat up or killed in a public park, you've got no one to sue except the (likely not so rich) perp. If the same happens in a "private" park (especially one thats explicitly preventing you from protecting yourself), then I'm pretty sure it's cha-cha-cha-ching!
    Plus do you think wealthy individuals would really spend their money to implement gun free zones ?

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