New Gun Law: Engaged in Business Definition

[KPShooting]

How does the federal government have the authority to regulate commerce that doesn't cross state lines? They're only the intERstate stuff right?

[ScotsGuards]

The assumption is that firearms are manufactured in various states and they are then distributed and sold in various other states. Hence Interstate Commerce. There was a case where a manufacturer was making and selling firearms ONLY the state they were in. Apparently because the company would not ship out-of-state, and all the transactions took place in-state, federal regulations did not apply.

[claudel]

Democrats haven't gone through such convoluted mental gymnastics in order to deny the Civil Rights of others since black people gained voting rights.

[ExFlyinguy]

I think a key word here is "Profit". I understand that market forces have changed things a bit, but normally there are very few guns that bring a higher "used" value than the original price.

Today I hear that "used" cars are selling for more than a brand new car, so things are a bit wacky.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you can show that you didn't make any profit, broke even, or maybe even came out a little ahead I doubt you have much to worry about.

But if you have skills and are a savvy playa scooping up every great deal you can find just because you know you can flip it quick, you might want to watch over your shoulder.

[ScotsGuards]

This new provision is primarily, I suspect, to rein in those people without an FFL selling fairly good quantities of firearms at gun shows or out of their garages. Usually with little or no oversight as to who these people are or their qualification. These unlicensed "dealers' are indeed doing this for profit and do so on a continuing basis. They have been doing so for years in many cases. ATF has been cracking down on these unlicensed individuals the past few years. This change in wording should make that a bit easier for them.

This is NOT the same as some guy or gal liquidating a few pieces here and there or disposing of all or part of their collections. I don't think those people have much to worry about.

Just MHO.

[85MikeTPI]

This new provision is primarily, I suspect, to rein in those people without an LLF selling fairly good quantities of firearms at gun shows or out of their garages. Usually with little or no oversight as to who these people are or their qualification. These unlicensed "dealers' are indeed doing this for profit and do so on a continuing basis. They have been doing so for years in many cases. ATF has been cracking down on these unlicensed individuals the past few years. This change in wording should make that a bit easier for them.

This is NOT the same as some guy or gal liquidating a few pieces here and there or disposing of all or part of their collections. I don't think those people have much to worry about.

Just MHO.

Might want to re-read that again, almost sounds like you're defending the ATF...

[TSimonetti]

I think a key word here is "Profit". I understand that market forces have changed things a bit, but normally there are very few guns that bring a higher "used" value than the original price.

Today I hear that "used" cars are selling for more than a brand new car, so things are a bit wacky.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you can show that you didn't make any profit, broke even, or maybe even came out a little ahead I doubt you have much to worry about.

But if you have skills and are a savvy playa scooping up every great deal you can find just because you know you can flip it quick, you might want to watch over your shoulder.

Just perfect. All I have to do is turn myself into a super accountant and paperwork filer and records keeper extraordinaire, dealing with depreciation, changing values of the dollar, inflation modifiers, market trends, and the fact that every one of my milsurps have about doubled or tripled in face value over the last 20 years. All I have to do is convince some petty arrogant bureaucrat with a badge who is intent on busting me and making it stick that I'm not seeking a profit(after putting up a few thousand dollars for an attorney too) That's also assuming they don't get a warrant to seize all my guns during the duration of their investigation. Sounds simple as hell. What's there to worry about?

This new language has no real limiting principles, and realize also that if we are ever face to face with some ATF agent trying to show him our side of the story regarding our gun sales, the game is probably already way over for us at that point. They already have their minds made up and everything we are saying at the interview is at least an attempted perjury trap.

Profit motive should not be a crime in America. Ever. If they don't want private sellers to sell guns without a background check, then Congress needs to vote for universal background checks, not rely on this onerous and nefarious BS.

I tend to agree with Jeff that casual sellers of parts of collections are not going to be on anyone's radar. But I also have seen what mission creep and radical agendas can do to the best of intentions. None of us want to be the first to be made a lesson out of.

[esh21167]

Yeah, stop worrying folks. We won't be on ATF's radar.


Until you have 2 classifieds on here to sell guns...

[thatguy977]

Yeah it*s kind of funny how this small but incredibly important change managed to get its way through without being highlighted until after it was passed.

We have to remember too there were 15 Republicans in the Senate that voted for this bill. People who were supposed to be pro-2nd amendment. I*m sure the others have been discussed in other posts, but one of them was Pat Toomey. I never used to be into politics, but it*s really really important to be informed about it.

[DucatiRon]

You guys besides Scotts are missing the real point of all of this.

It's called profit.

I don't care if it's selling guns, making guns, making moonshine, or running a repair garage out of your house.

If you make a profit, .gov wants their taxes. They may list safety, tracing, paper trail as their reasons, but it's all about taxes on your profit, you are not paying. Period.

ITS ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY.