New Gun Law: Engaged in Business Definition

**thatguy977** · July 4th, 2022, 12:56 PM

Hi All,

I*ve been reading the new gun law, Safer Communities Act,* and I had some questions related to the *engaged in business* definition. As I understand it, they changed the definition of engaged in business from selling *with the principal objective of livelihood and profit* to selling *to predominantly earn a profit.* My issue is, I don*t know where that leaves the gun community who are trying to sell guns on classifieds or at gun shows. The term *predominantly* means over other intents such as improving or liquidating a firearms collection which is what most of us think we are doing; but does that mean the ATF will see it the same way?

I*d like to get peoples thoughts and opinions on the new definition and what that will lead to if anything.

Edit: I don*t know why the formatting got messed up with the quotes

**raxar** · July 4th, 2022, 01:39 PM

They're going to use it as a catch-all to go after people they don't like.

**thatguy977** · July 4th, 2022, 06:19 PM

This seems like a pretty significant change to me. I don*t know why people are not talking about it as much.

In my opinion, you don*t become a business when you make a profit on something. People sell used clothing, stamps etc but they don*t do it with the intention of forming a business.

The *predominantly* prefix doesn*t really give me any comfort knowing how the ATF is.

**thatguy977** · July 4th, 2022, 06:21 PM

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They know what they are doing. David Chipman surely has peoples* best interests in mind.

article source: https://www.thetrace.org/2022/07/bip...s-act-gun-law/

**bogey1** · July 4th, 2022, 07:23 PM

Its none of their business what profit you make from selling anything. Loose lips sink ships.

**iUxTc** · July 4th, 2022, 08:30 PM

Yeah I started a thread in gunsmithing about getting an ffl to be safe. Just trying to negotiate local ordinances may be tricky... The ATF need to drop the business hours and not allowing the approval to "enhance personal collection"

**TSimonetti** · July 4th, 2022, 09:18 PM

I'm not an ATF agent, but I suspect that the primary focus will be on private sales to people who are not friends or family and which do not undergo a background check. If you sell a gun on Gunbroker or some public forum to a private buyer and use an FFL to ship and/or receive the gun and handle the transfer, you are probably not going to be bothered. If you sell some guns to a friend or family member at the local gun range or at your house and you both shut up about it, again, no problem. If you habitually sell guns on Armslist and agree to meet the unknown buyer in a Win Dixie parking lot to complete the sale, you now have a target on your back. Private sellers at gun shows now have to be wary as well I suppose.

Essentially, the ATF could never prove selling guns was anyone's primary livelihood. Now they have a legislative fix that gives them carte blanche to essentially charge anyone they want who sells guns without a license. My guess is that most future arrests are going to be very cut and dried, but some will no doubt include a few very average joes selling a few guns per year to pay for their daughter's wedding or to buy a car or for home repairs, to pay for college tuition etc. And they're not going to know what hit them, and it's going to have a chilling effect on everyone. Mission Accomplished in the eyes of the ATF.

**thatguy977** · July 4th, 2022, 11:50 PM

I totally agree. I don*t think the change will affect most people, the ATF knows better, but I think a few average people disposing of their guns legally will find themselves targeted. The ATF will likely limit their operations on average people to avoid appearing on the radar and having bad PR, but will probably target just enough to scare gun hobbyists. And that will change peoples* view on guns in the long run.

Essentially guns are no longer investments. It will drive a lot of people from the hobby. Gun prices will likely be impacted. People will likely only sell guns to those they know or trust. More people will get FFLs.

In my opinion, this is worse than an assault weapons ban. It not only changes a section of guns that could be banned, but changes the entire hobby as a whole.

**iUxTc** · July 5th, 2022, 03:47 AM

Originally Posted by thatguy977

I totally agree. I don*t think the change will affect most people, the ATF knows better, but I think a few average people disposing of their guns legally will find themselves targeted. The ATF will likely limit their operations on average people to avoid appearing on the radar and having bad PR, but will probably target just enough to scare gun hobbyists. And that will change peoples* view on guns in the long run.

Essentially guns are no longer investments. It will drive a lot of people from the hobby. Gun prices will likely be impacted. People will likely only sell guns to those they know or trust. More people will get FFLs.

In my opinion, this is worse than an assault weapons ban. It not only changes a section of guns that could be banned, but changes the entire hobby as a whole.

They need to make the ffl process much easier, and stop making us create and prove we will run a business to be in the game.