Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: THIS INFURIATES ME!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JAKIII View Post
    As long as you guys don't commit domestic battery on your wives then why worry?
    Because unhinged progressives can still make unsubstantiated claims in an ex parte hearing and have you SWATed via Red Flag orders just because they don't like you or your politics.

    Your rights will be removed without any meaningful due process. You won't be aware that any court actions are being taken against you. You won't be represented by counsel during the initial hearing. You won't be able to confront your accuser, challenge their evidence, or introduce your own.

    The evidentiary standard in this ex parte hearing is a mere preponderance of the evidence (i.e. more likely than not) rather than beyond a reasonable doubt, and since no one is able to present any counterargument to the accuser's narrative, the judge is most likely going to grant the order. Especially since the judge will get massacred in the press if they fail to grant an order and something bad happens, but will get almost no credit for standing up for due process and defending your civil rights in your absence.

    You won't find out that any action has been taken against you until SWAT comes to bust down your door at 5:00am to search your house and take your guns. Your property will be searched and seized without a criminal conviction or trial.

    If you survive the pre-dawn raid, it's on you to foot the bill for your lawyer, expert witnesses, and mental health eval to convince the judge you aren't a threat during the (eventual) follow-up hearing (since this is a civil proceeding). You will not be provided with a lawyer if you can't afford one.

    States are free to set their own penalties for false reports. So, something like 1 hr community service for a false report that f's up your life is good enough to check the box and qualify for the Federal grant.

    California just made this 1000% easier, now that gun owners were doxxed: https://www.theblaze.com/news/califo...er-information This isn't the first time and it won't be the last.

    But nope, nothing to worry about here.
    I am not a lawyer.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: THIS INFURIATES ME!!!!!

    I believe the video was referencing the renewed attempt to pass a Red Flag bill introduced by State Senator Haywood (Jablowme).

    https://whyy.org/articles/pa-lawmake...s-gun-control/

    Following Saturday*s federal passage of the Bipartisan Safer Community Act, Pennsylvania is one of many states considering adopting so-called *red flag* laws. Pennsylvania Congressman Dwight Evans and Pennsylvania state Senator Art Haywood [Jablowme] held a press conference this morning to urge the creation of a red flag bill. If passed, Pennsylvania would receive $750 million for violence prevention aids, mental health support, and more.

    *These state laws help ensure deadly weapons are kept out of the hands of individuals, said Evans. *These red flag laws are saving lives in 19 states, including four of the neighboring states right around us, but not Pennsylvania! Senator Art Haywood [Jablowme] and I say [that] it*s time to change that.*

    Senator Haywood [Jablowme] said the federal money, provided as an incentive to pass new laws, would have a wide range of uses including suicide prevention. *Hopefully, this leadership from the national government will allow us to help individuals who are at an extreme risk to themselves and give the power to a judge to make a decision to take a gun away temporarily from [those] individuals.*

    The passage of the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, one of the biggest pieces of federal gun legislation in decades, is a rare moment of compromise. Congressman Evans noted that Senator Pat Toomey and Representative Bryan Fitzpatrick, both Republicans, voted in favor of the bill. *It*s clear to me that this is not a partisan issue. This is an issue about safety for our constituents [and] public welfare,* he said.

    The federal bill comes shortly after an unsuccessful attempt by Senator Haywood [Jablowme] at the state level; *We have not been able to get these extreme risk protection legislations passed in Pennsylvania. As recently as last week, I had conversations with my Republican colleagues to get red flag legislation passed in Pennsylvania and could not get the momentum to get it done,* he said, adding that he hopes the federal incentives will be enough to renew dialogue.
    I am not a lawyer.

  3. #23
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    Port Carbon, Pennsylvania
    (Schuylkill County)
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    Default Re: THIS INFURIATES ME!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Krichardson View Post
    Yeah, some of these youtube guys have far too much preamble.
    Alright, the video is about how the state of Pennsylvania, or at least some of the lawmakers in said state, want to enact red flag laws in the state because of the recent bill that was signed into law by Joe Blow that gives funding to states that do that. It just blows my mind and infuriates me to no end that the state if Pennsylvania of all states would do that. I would expect states such as New Jersey and New York to have red flag laws as they already do but never Pennsylvania, not in a million years or ever. I've had enough of people in the state of Pennsylvania who don't belong there ruining my beloved Keystone State.

  4. #24
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    (Schuylkill County)
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    Default Re: THIS INFURIATES ME!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by free View Post
    Amen to that.

    No review, no view. Summary please.

    That's more of a topic (which is nice), than a summary.
    See post #23

  5. #25
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    Default Re: THIS INFURIATES ME!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JAKIII View Post
    As long as you guys don't commit domestic battery on your wives then why worry?
    Because you can be red flagged without committing domestic battery on your wife.

  6. #26
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    Misanthrope, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
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    Default Re: THIS INFURIATES ME!!!!!

    I'm a little confused. PA already has red flag laws in place. I have a relative who recently experienced the effect of these red flag laws. Do we, or don't we have red flag laws on the books and being enforced now in PA. ?
    Lower your expectations to zero and you'll never be disappointed.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: THIS INFURIATES ME!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by tlnzz1 View Post
    I'm a little confused. PA already has red flag laws in place. I have a relative who recently experienced the effect of these red flag laws. Do we, or don't we have red flag laws on the books and being enforced now in PA. ?
    PA does not have Red Flag laws of the form currently being discussed/proposed. We do have Protection From Abuse (PFA) orders which are routinely abused in divorce proceedings to gain leverage over a spouse.

    We also have civil commitment procedures which are totally different since those have (more) due process protections and require the subject to get some sort of mental health evaluation/treatment rather than just taking away all of their guns and leaving them free to harm themselves or others via any number of other ways.

    Practically speaking, Red Flag laws are designed to be a weapon to target people who have unpopular political opinions or to settle (escalate) personal disputes. They don't do anything that existing laws can't already do better with more protections for civil rights.
    I am not a lawyer.

  8. #28
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    May 2009
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    Glenmoore, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: THIS INFURIATES ME!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by buckengr View Post
    ~snip~

    But nope, nothing to worry about here.
    Law suits are already filed against the Bill, which legal pundits have said is unconstitutional. SCOTUS may choose to add to their docket for review and strike it.

    The sky is not falling... step down off the ledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Photon Guy View Post
    Because you can be red flagged without committing domestic battery on your wife.
    The post was meant as sarcasm.

    A Judge would have to issue the warrant. And "I don't like Photon Guy," wouldn't pass the Photon Guy is dangerous smell yes.

  9. #29
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    Jul 2020
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    Default Re: THIS INFURIATES ME!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JAKIII View Post
    As long as you guys don't commit domestic battery on your wives then why worry?
    Beat your meat, not your wife. Angry masturbation fixes everything…

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Ercildoun, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: THIS INFURIATES ME!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JAKIII View Post
    As long as you guys don't commit domestic battery on your wives then why worry?
    Because it's been deemed unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court so that may have something to do with our objections to new gun laws.
    Corruption is the default behavior of government officials. JPC

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