Best PCC?

**Steve_NEPhila** · June 14th, 2022, 10:49 AM

CQB with a PCC? I do not intend to sound like a dick here, but have you ever run a PCC in a match or in a class that shot 500 or so rounds a day?

**rckeystone** · June 14th, 2022, 11:59 AM

One guys' opinion FWIW

**JaySmith** · June 14th, 2022, 12:35 PM

The only reason I see for PCC's are CQB, where you need mobility in tight spaces and you don't want to blow your ear drums out.

PS90 in sbr is the first choice by a long shot due to the superior mobility with the bullpup design, extremely light weight at only a few pounds, factory 50 round magazines, and no recoil to speak of. Its rounds are moving extremely fast and you get rifle damage in an extremely compact package. It's only down side is relatively expensive ammo. Pre-covid it was $27.99/box of 50, right now it's about $49.95/box of 50. The ammo type matters when it comes to reliability. There's only two real players in the game, American Eagle and FN factory ammo. In the US, both are made by fiocchi in the same plant. The big difference is the AE projectile is glue'd, where the FN ammo is crimped. This leads to the AE ammo having reliability issues, not something you want to deal with when your life depends on it. Pre-covid, you could have a ps90 for $1200, now it ranges from $1500-1900.

The CZ Scorpion EVO S1 is my second choice, with the stribog a close third. With a collapsable stock in sbr and 8" barrel, 30-40 round stick mags, it's a bit heavier than the ps90 but not much. My EVO eats any ammo I feed it and runs flawlessly. Unlike the ps90, it has a slew of aftermarket parts to make it better, which can nickel and dime you, your $800 PCC can turn into a $1500 gun pretty quickly. But again, they're options like binary triggers, folding vs colapsing stock, safety switch, different triggers and grips. Still, it's a comfortable gun that you can run all day without issue, you'll never have to worry about reliability or ammo availability.

I think 9mm AR's are silly, and look dumb. AR platform is best suited for actual AR's. AR's to me are field guns, not used indoors. You have added mobility for their added length/size, as well as noise.

**Emptymag** · June 14th, 2022, 12:42 PM

14.5" CMMG barrel w/pinned/welded flash hider.

**Orive 8** · June 14th, 2022, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Steve_NEPhila

CQB with a PCC? I do not intend to sound like a dick here, but have you ever run a PCC in a match or in a class that shot 500 or so rounds a day?

If you consider an MP5 a PCC, then yes I have. Pretty good weapon for CQB. But still - a 9mm.

**Emptymag** · June 14th, 2022, 02:01 PM

I apologize for totally fucking up this thread by planting the idea of subguns in people's minds. Seems like lots of suggestions for SBRs, pistols, and the like, vs CARBINES.

**JaySmith** · June 14th, 2022, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Emptymag

I apologize for totally fucking up this thread by planting the idea of subguns in people's minds. Seems like lots of suggestions for SBRs, pistols, and the like, vs CARBINES.

Carbines are just shorter, smaller, and more compact rifles. So SBR's could be considered carbines. And pistols with longer than a standard pistol barrel, would be pretty close to a sbr, especially with a brace, which would also fall into the carbine category. I consider carbines around the 8-14" barrel length, rifles at 16+, and pistols less than 8". So an ar pistol with brace would be a carbine, a cz scorpion sbr would be a carbine, etc.

**Ronin** · June 14th, 2022, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by iUxTc

Oh no! we need to consult title 18 again for the different definitions of "firearm"!

That doesn't change the fact that this is a pistol forum and there's a forum specifically for rifles, which a carbine falls under. Maybe the mods should create a PCC forum so people can discuss their favorite pointless gun without bothering the pistol or rifle folks...

**Ronin** · June 14th, 2022, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by JaySmith

Carbines are just shorter, smaller, and more compact rifles. So SBR's could be considered carbines. And pistols with longer than a standard pistol barrel, would be pretty close to a sbr, especially with a brace, which would also fall into the carbine category. I consider carbines around the 8-14" barrel length, rifles at 16+, and pistols less than 8". So an ar pistol with brace would be a carbine, a cz scorpion sbr would be a carbine, etc.

That's a dangerous line of thinking. We don't want anyone associating braces with carbines or rifles. Braces are braces, and pistols with braces are still pistols. That's how we want it to stay...

**Steve_NEPhila** · June 14th, 2022, 03:08 PM

Weight is an interesting thing. The PS90 was mentioned, and it is not light weight. It hovers around 6.25 pounds slick which is heavier than most ARs and it is about 26 inches long. My Honey Badger pistol is 4.5 lbs slick and 20-25 inches long slick with the brace in or out. Bullpups feel deceptive about their actual weight. I put a Half Nelson silencer and eotech with the 300 BO reticle on mine and the capability it offers is remarkable. Supersonic or subsonic with the change of a magazine... but 300 BO is no pistol round.

The MP5 is cool, no doubt yet your sentiment is accurate that it is just a 9mm that weighs as much as an AR15 and does much, much less. The Honey Badger by Q was designed as a replacement for the MP5SD to increase lethality and range. The MP5 was high tech in the 1960s when it was designed. Of course, I would love to own one, who wouldn't. But, it does about the same thing that a 500 USD Glock brand Glock will do...