Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default FBI Switch from .40 to 9mm - 9mm improvement

    I've been shooting firearms most of my life. Back in the 90s, when I started carrying a pistol, I chose larger calibers. We had magazine limits back then, so larger calibers made more sense. In addition, the FBI switched to .40 caliber because they needed a better round, and people took it seriously. I moved to .40 caliber, as a result. Now it seems that 9mm is king. I read the FBI's report their justification for the move. Many people seem to be able to echo the FBI's finding rather well, which is great, and I can do the same. A primary justification was the increase in effectiveness of the 9mm, due to improved bullet technology. Does anybody here know or recall what the most effective 9mm ammunition was back in 1997, and what it's performance was, when the FBI left the 9mm behind? I am trying to understand what type of 9mm bullet performance they deemed insufficient in 1997 and how that compares with the performance they deemed sufficient when they moved back to 9mm. I am looking for information like numbers and percentages for ballistic data and penetration, etc. I am not interested in discussing recoil, magazine capacity, ability to hit, etc. I already fully understand all of that from the FBI report.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: FBI Switch from .40 to 9mm - 9mm improvement

    My hypothesis is that they have found that the hoodrats have been successfully killing each other with cheap 9mm ammo and decided that that is all they need.
    Gender confusion is a mental illness

  3. #3
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    Default Re: FBI Switch from .40 to 9mm - 9mm improvement

    I think it was an accuracy issue i.e. recoil etc. that favored the 9 plus mag capacity once new bullet tech improved.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: FBI Switch from .40 to 9mm - 9mm improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Knightshift View Post
    I think it was an accuracy issue i.e. recoil etc. that favored the 9 plus mag capacity once new bullet tech improved.
    What you cite is the reason the Army went to 9mm 30+ years ago.


    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities".

  5. #5
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    Default Re: FBI Switch from .40 to 9mm - 9mm improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Knightshift View Post
    I think it was an accuracy issue i.e. recoil etc. that favored the 9 plus mag capacity once new bullet tech improved.
    I see what you did there

  6. #6
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    Default Re: FBI Switch from .40 to 9mm - 9mm improvement

    The Bureau are keen to minimize accidental shootings from their Special Agents while breakdancing in clubs.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ver-bar-patron

  7. #7
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    Default Re: FBI Switch from .40 to 9mm - 9mm improvement

    The reason the FBI changed from 45 to 9mm is because they now have more women agents. Women cannot handle the larger pistol because of smaller hands.
    Go to a prison and see how many have been shot with 9mm more than once. Then find out how many have been shot with .45 more than once.
    This is purely a ergonomics issue nothing more.
    I always stressed to my son"one shot one kill that was all that is needed". When He came home from Marine Corp Boot camp He was telling me about the Marines stressing "ONE SHOT ONE KILL" He looks at me and the light bulb went on Dad was now a whole lot smarter than he was 13 weeks ago.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: FBI Switch from .40 to 9mm - 9mm improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz2720 View Post
    The reason the FBI changed from 45 to 9mm is because they now have more women agents. Women cannot handle the larger pistol because of smaller hands.
    Go to a prison and see how many have been shot with 9mm more than once. Then find out how many have been shot with .45 more than once.
    This is purely a ergonomics issue nothing more.
    Women and beta male agents, plus many never shot a gun before.... Cheaper with 9mm

  9. #9
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    Default Re: FBI Switch from .40 to 9mm - 9mm improvement

    Didn't the FBI adopt the ten millimeter round and then abandon it shortly afterward several years ago?
    There are no pacts between lions and men.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: FBI Switch from .40 to 9mm - 9mm improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz2720 View Post
    The reason the FBI changed from 45 to 9mm is because they now have more women agents. Women cannot handle the larger pistol because of smaller hands.
    Go to a prison and see how many have been shot with 9mm more than once. Then find out how many have been shot with .45 more than once.
    This is purely a ergonomics issue nothing more.
    I am led to come to the same conclusion, after reading the report, and reading about other problems the FBI has faced. I think report was worded to carefully to justify the decision. However, I now read many articles stating that 9mm is a better round than .40 caliber and .45, and the FBI report is cited to explain this. This justification of less recoil and, therefore, better shot placement is not new. I've been hearing that since the 90's. I completely agree that you should shoot a 9mm if you can't handle a .40, .45, .357 Sig, etc, but I just don't accept that there is no difference between the rounds or that all pistol rounds are equivalent. I find that absurd. If you read my original post, I asked a question, which has not been answered yet. I have posted a more general question about if anybody disagrees with the FBI switch back to 9mm, on another forum, and I got about 10 answers which simply cited what the FBI stated and that they agree with it. It's pretty clear that the folks on this forum do not simply agree with the report, are willing to share their objections, and are willing to point out some things that the FBI chose to leave out of the report.

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