FBI Switch from .40 to 9mm - 9mm improvement

[Krichardson]

More than "several", but yes. I'm thinking ~30 years ago now?

I thought it was right around twenty give or take a couple,that's about when
I can recall reading or hearing about it.

[SevenMilePete]

My hypothesis is that they have found that the hoodrats have been successfully killing each other with cheap 9mm ammo and decided that that is all they need.

Naw, lighter recoil for female agents, and wimpy agents.

[Steve_NEPhila]

To answer one of the original questions, I am not sure what 9mm load was the top dog in the 1990s. However, I do recall the problems had with ammo in the 1990s. Back then, the projectile was not tuned to the load like what can be done today. Today it is normal to have a bullet tuned to expand and penetrate to a prescribed manner for the cartridge and expected barrel length. Back in the 1990s and earlier the game was, essentially push the bullet as fast as possible to maybe get the desired results.

This talk about this pistol round being better than another when talking about the normal serious cartridges (9x19, .40, .45 etc...) is not exactly relevant today. Unless that projectile has an impact velocity at or above 2000 fps, they are pretty much the same. The exception being buckshot, but squeezing off a round of buckshot can be like firing eight or nine rounds simultaneously. Handguns are pretty inefficient at incapacitation. They are great tools for what they are intended for, portable fighting tools.

[akley88]

ive seen it stated it was due to recoil, to many new agents are recoil sensitive, and bullet improvements. cost is always another issue. 9mm generally is slightly cheaper. plus im sure there is the usual financial pressure from companies/lobbyists to get the newest best guns. the bullet improvement is always a weird one to me cause some people make it seem like only 9mm bullet tech has improved. FBI could have also looked to lighter faster 40 cal rounds.

[knight0334]

Despite annual training/recertification, I would not presume that all LEOs at local, state and federal levels are competent marksmen... regardless of the caliber sidearm they carry.

NYC is proof of that. It isn't uncommon for them to shoot more bystanders than criminals. ...I'm not kidding.

I think one incident alone had 5 or 7 bystanders shot for a single criminal.

[akley88]

NYC is proof of that. It isn't uncommon for them to shoot more bystanders than criminals. ...I'm not kidding.

I think one incident alone had 5 or 7 bystanders shot for a single criminal.

Dallas Police study in 2019 said that police only hit their target 35% of the time. NYC was even lower at one point, 23% accurate in the early 90s.

[K.C.]

If you shoot .40 exclusively you get used to recoil and master your shots. If you shoot 9mm at the range the same day you're shooting .40, internal whining begins and you start questioning .40.

[easyj]

They didn't say their agents needed more ammo. They also didn't say their agents needed less recoil. They did not mention any failings of their move to .40 caliber. As a matter of fact, I never heard any LEO that I know complain about it. It seemed to me that .40 caliber was a success for them, yet something drove them to switch to 9mm. They did not mention what made them want to move away from a successful round.

[Jhaydeno]

NYC is proof of that. It isn't uncommon for them to shoot more bystanders than criminals. ...I'm not kidding.

I think one incident alone had 5 or 7 bystanders shot for a single criminal.

I was thinking the same thing: 9mm = better bystander safety! Many FBI agents are hired for their thinking ability, not their handiness with a firearm.

FYI, it was 9 bystanders shot in front of the Empire State Building by NYCPD. I believe this was after the 12 pound trigger adjustments due to negligent discharges by a bunch of stellar officers.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nypd-9-sh...ce-gunfire.amp

[Brick]

I was thinking the same thing: 9mm = better bystander safety! Many FBI agents are hired for their thinking ability, not their handiness with a firearm.
snipped

But FBI Special Agents are supposed to be superlatively adept at firearms handling, marksmanship and tactics after their training at Quantico. Come to think of it my father received training from the FBI as NYS policeman. Has something changed there?