Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    ...
    (York County)
    Posts
    1,889
    Rep Power
    21474853

    Default Mere Possession Of A Gun ...

    'Mere possession' of gun doesn't permit police deadly force, appeals court says
    by Kaelan Deese - April 07, 2022
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...als-court-says

    A suspect's "mere possession" of a firearm does not authorize law enforcement officers to use deadly force, according to a recent opinion by a three-judge panel on the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals.

    The March 30 opinion in the case of Knibbs v. Momphard stems from an April 2018 shooting in Franklin, North Carolina, where Macon County Deputy Anthony Wade Momphard Jr. was cleared of any criminal wrongdoing after he shot and killed a resident at a home he was investigating for a "nocturnal disturbance." At the time, then-District Attorney Greg Newman said the deputy was "justified in his use of force" because the officer heard someone "rack" a round in a shotgun.

    Momphard claimed that when he shined his light into the home of now-deceased Michael Scott Knibbs, he found the resident pointing his shotgun on the other side of the window, though it is disputed whether the shotgun was actually pointed at the deputy.

    "Knibbs never made any verbal threats or movements with the shotgun. He was shot simply because he stood in his living room holding a shotgun," witnesses presented in court filings. Momphard fired six shots from his service revolver and killed Knibbs, leading to his wife and daughter screaming in shock over his body.

    The appeals court sided with the estate of Knibbs last month in saying they should be allowed to bring their case to a trial, arguing a resident has the right under the Fourth Amendment to come to their door with a firearm and that officers must adequately identify themselves to gain qualified immunity.

    "Utilizing these principles, the question is whether it was clearly established in 2018 that an officer may not use deadly force against a homeowner who possesses a firearm inside his own home while investigating a nocturnal disturbance but does not aim the weapon at the officer or otherwise threaten him with imminent deadly harm," the court added.

    Another primary question remains as to whether Knibbs ever pointed his gun at Momphard, as the judges cited this as the only aspect of the case that could have caused a reasonable officer to fear for his life. Additionally, the opinion cited a sheriff in Momphard's department who testified it is "not illegal to rack a shotgun."

    The deputy claimed he shouted instructions at least three times for Knibbs to put the gun down during his nighttime investigation, though the court clarified that a mere verbal announcement without visual confirmation is not sufficient for an officer to gain qualified immunity. The deputy also approached the rural home during the night of the shooting without turning on his emergency lights and siren.

    "Under the circumstances proffered by the Estate*s evidence, there was no lighting either inside or outside of Knibbs* home. And it is undisputed that Deputy Momphard*s blue emergency lights were not operating," according to court records.

    <More Info At Link Above>

    Police have a tough job. While investigation & persuit of criminals is important, they must First & Foremost avoid endangering innocent citizens. They must not become Judge Dredd, meting out justice on the street as they see fit - to those who have a RIGHT to be where they are and do what they are doing. No more so than in one's own home.

    With the deadly authority they rightly are given to pursue criminal behavior, they must be overly careful to apply that authority properly. Otherwise, we become victims of authoritarian rule!

    ...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Reading, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,539
    Rep Power
    21474841

    Default Re: Mere Possession Of A Gun ...

    You can't trust everyone to do the right thing all the time. Even if they're supposed to. So protect yourself. Identify who's at the door before answering the door. Don't let him see your gun until he has positively identified himself. The cop was dead wrong and should go to jail forever. But the guy is dead. He died on that hill. That's not a hill I'm willing to die on. It's why I have a camera on the front porch with a monitor in the foyer that is always on. I should be able to answer the door with my gun, but do I really trust the cop to not take it as an aggressive act and kill me? Sadly, no.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Levittown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Posts
    9,636
    Rep Power
    21474860

    Default Re: Mere Possession Of A Gun ...

    Case by case, incident by incident, judicial decree by judicial decree, with each step we are going to a person/citizen/police officer will have to receive the first shot and their shot will have to be return fire.
    Last edited by Bang; April 7th, 2022 at 10:50 PM.
    There are two kinds of guns. Those I have acquired, and those I hope to.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sterling, Pennsylvania
    (Wayne County)
    Posts
    6,038
    Rep Power
    21474859

    Default Re: Mere Possession Of A Gun ...

    Sounds like rules of engagement in our military.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Waynesboro, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
    Posts
    3,597
    Rep Power
    21474853

    Default Re: Mere Possession Of A Gun ...

    If anything goes down at my house, I'll take care of it, and my wife has instructions to not call the police until we are out of and away from our house. The most dangerous place to be is in or around the house if the police show up
    The Hostler

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Levittown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Posts
    9,636
    Rep Power
    21474860

    Default Re: Mere Possession Of A Gun ...

    The fog of war does not discriminate.
    There are two kinds of guns. Those I have acquired, and those I hope to.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Folsom, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
    Posts
    2,147
    Rep Power
    21474856

    Default Re: Mere Possession Of A Gun ...

    I*m sort of torn on this one. Certainly I should be able to stand in my living room and point a shotgun out the window when I hear noise on the porch or see unknown movement, etc.. On the other hand, a cop that is called to investigate and comes across a shotgun (for arguments sake) pointed at him is in a hard place.

    One thing I AM sure of* a guy has to be crazy to be a policeman these days.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    DeepInTheWoods, Pennsylvania
    (Warren County)
    Posts
    2,418
    Rep Power
    21474854

    Default Re: Mere Possession Of A Gun ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ray h View Post
    If anything goes down at my house, I'll take care of it, and my wife has instructions to not call the police until we are out of and away from our house. The most dangerous place to be is in or around the house if the police show up
    never thought about it, but yeah.
    American by BIRTH, Infidel by CHOICE

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 27
    Last Post: July 25th, 2012, 05:22 PM
  2. Mark Inglis: More than a mere mortal
    By mjfletcher in forum General
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: May 15th, 2009, 12:08 PM
  3. Mere carry of a weapon RAS? NO! (Here's why!)
    By lildobe in forum General
    Replies: 135
    Last Post: April 6th, 2009, 10:23 AM
  4. C'mere deer
    By Montell C. Williams in forum General
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: November 8th, 2007, 09:47 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •