Experiences with Permitium for LTCF?

[astn]

I wanted to see if anyone was willing to speak with me regarding their experiences using Permitium to apply for an LTCF as well as to find out what Pennsylvania counties are currently using it.

For full disclosure, I'm a gun lawyer that has worked with Gun Owners of America on various Pennsylvania lawsuits and legislation. On behalf of GOA, I sued Philadelphia twice during the pandemic with good success (first because Philly refused to take applications, and then again once they took applications but refused to timely issue the permits.) At the moment, this is a personal project that I'm looking into, and isn't associated with GOA or any other group.

That said, I've talked to a few people regarding Permitium applications and want to find out if their problems are wide-spread. If you could either post here (or PM me) what county you applied and your experience with Permitium, I'd appreciate it. I'll likely follow-up with specific questions via PM.

As an aside, if you have other complaints about LTCFs in Pennsylvania, this is a good opportunity to bitch. There are a number of attorneys, including myself, who are always interested in looking at how governments are interfering with gun rights, but oftentimes we don't know about the problem unless we stumble across it.

Finally, if you're interested in helping out on future lawsuits (regardless of where you are in PA), please let me know via PM and if I have an opportunity for you (or know someone who might) I'll get in touch. Without people who are willing to act, we can't file the lawsuits to fix the various municipalities infringments, so I'm always thankful whenever someone will step up.

Thanks in advance.

[Emptymag]

Never even heard that word mentioned here. I had to Google it.
Still not sure what it is. Is it a third party LTCF "application" website? Why would someone not go directly through the Sherriff?

[astn]

Permitium is a third-party web-service that many Sheriffs in PA are now using in place of paper applications. I know Philly Police are using it, and have been told that Delaware County and Berks County Sheriffs are as well. According to Permitium's web site, they have a number of other counties (Montgomery, Blair, Cambria, Clinton, Columbia, Montgomery, Wayne, York), but I don't know if that list is exhaustive--it hasn't been updated in over a year.

I was under the impression many other counties were also using it (such as Allegheny, though that appears not to be the case) which is why I was hoping to round out my knowledge here.

[SevenMilePete]

Well, I guess you learn something every day, besides from the Daily Trivia challenge. Permitium?

I did find this though
PERMITIUM LICENSE TO CARRY/CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT SCAM
https://blog.princelaw.com/tag/permitium/

Oh, also found out it does more than just Concealed Carry Permits. It also does searches of vital records for business decisions, issuing birth certificates, etc. Sounds like a super Google. But, not free. Twenty employees?

[Ilikebuckets]

Well, I guess you learn something every day, besides from the Daily Trivia challenge. Permitium?

I did find this though
PERMITIUM LICENSE TO CARRY/CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT SCAM
https://blog.princelaw.com/tag/permitium/

Oh, also found out it does more than just Concealed Carry Permits. It also does searches of vital records for business decisions, issuing birth certificates, etc. Sounds like a super Google. But, not free. Twenty employees?

Just to be clear in case people don't read the link. Permitium is not a scam. They were reporting about a scam.

[Jhaydeno]

I've never heard of it either, Interesting though!

Any chance you want to help fight Penndot and their illegal use of the gun buster signs on their license centers? It clearly violates preemption, but they refuse to acknowledge it. Wolf and Shapiro are on their way out, so it's time to ramp up the pressure!

[Sparks]

It is being used by Phila, and so far it seems to have made things easier. I have a pickup scheduled through it next week.

[astn]

I'm mostly just trying to get a survey of the process. What questions did they ask, were any questions not on the standard form, what did you pay, how were you notified for pick-up, were you required to make an appointment for pick up, did they meet the statutory 45 day deadline? I also am curious as to how counties (like Philadelphia and Montgomery) integrated their previous process? (e.g. MontCo used to require you show up to the sheriff with fingerprints already completed and Philly had a drop-off interview.)

Just to be clear in case people don't read the link. Permitium is not a scam. They were reporting about a scam.

Let me reinforce that: Permitium is absolutely not a scam, it's just a service that counties are using to accept online applications. I'm just trying to find out if Permitium is doing it uniformly across the or has 'customized' their service to individual contracts.

It is being used by Phila, and so far it seems to have made things easier. I have a pickup scheduled through it next week.

My understanding is Philadelphia is now processing LTCF applications faster than it ever has in history, so I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks. It just takes a lawsuit at every step of the training process. Hopefully they don't forget the lessons (though I wouldn't hold my breath.)

[PickingPA]

Sounds like a bunch of garbage

I enjoy the current process. Walk in, check firearm, pay $20, get photo taken, wait for laminating machine to heat up, thank the Sheriff office worker when she hands me my new LTCF, pick up firearm, walk out the door.

No need to put any more than 25¢ in the parking meter

MANY MANY counties should take lessons from such a friendly experience

[EFK]

"As an aside, if you have other complaints about LTCFs in Pennsylvania, this is a good opportunity to bitch. There are a number of attorneys, including myself, who are always interested in looking at how governments are interfering with gun rights, but oftentimes we don't know about the problem unless we stumble across it."

Just curious about your thoughts on this (following) then. I posted something about it quite a while ago in a different thread and it was never discussed.

As I understand the permit process as defined by the legislature, the individual county sheriffs are to all utilize the same application form, correct?

Bradford Co. sheriff, who is admittedly very pro-gun and a great sheriff, has added his own addendum to the permit application. This was actually done by the previous sheriff, but the current sheriff maintains the same addendum. I believe this is an illegal addition, but not being an attorney, I'm not positive. I've not known anyone to make a big issue out of it, but I can see some circumstances where it might become an issue (for example, new state or county resident etc.).

Here is a link to the county "pistol permit instructions:"

https://bradfordcountypa.org/wp-cont...structions.pdf

Note #4: the sheriff is mandating that the two listed references be Bradford Co. residents *or* a member of law enforcement.

A link to the actual application is here, and you can see that this added mandate is noted immediately at the top of the application:

https://bradfordcountypa.org/wp-cont...y-Firearms.pdf

I'm pretty sure this is not a legal mandate, but would love to hear an attorney's take on it. Maybe I'm simply wrong but I was under the assumption that the two references can be anyone anywhere in the country, or at least the state in general, not family members. I don't understand the "county only" mandate.