ATF denying “Solvent Trap” Form 1’s!!!!

[USMC3531]

The question is whether something is contraband because it's "readily convertible" to an NFA firearm, when the reality is that a soda bottle and duct tape can silence a pistol in 30 seconds or less.

The statutes are unworkable, and the regs make it worse. Someday, ATF will raid Home Depot and confiscate most of the plumbing department as "silencer tubes and machine gun receiver blanks".

The difference is pop bottles, ducttape, plumbing parts all have legal uses, the unfinished internals that they have banned have no other use. According to the tech bulletin they aren't concerned about tubes because a "solvent trap" is a legit legal use , it's just the internals that they don't like.

[GunLawyer001]

The difference is pop bottles, ducttape, plumbing parts all have legal uses, the unfinished internals that they have banned have no other use. According to the tech bulletin they aren't concerned about tubes because a "solvent trap" is a legit legal use , it's just the internals that they don't like.

But according to recent history and reality, they are going after customers who bought nothing else but solvent traps.

[Delkal]

The difference is pop bottles, ducttape, plumbing parts all have legal use.

I didn't go back to see it this was answered before......But could you give the ATF a drawing of your application form using these kinds of parts? And after they OK your build do are you required to use the exact plans and parts or can you substitute some of the parts during construction?

Even parts from a premade solvent trap? What happens if it turned out you used all of the parts?

[JaySmith]

But according to recent history and reality, they are going after customers who bought nothing else but solvent traps.

I thought they were deemed legal by the atf?

[USMC3531]

But according to recent history and reality, they are going after customers who bought nothing else but solvent traps.

Certain solvent traps.... or solvent traps that included internals.

[USMC3531]

I thought they were deemed legal by the atf?

Some of them are OK, ones that came with unfinished internals whether baffles or monocores are not OK. There is a technical bulletin that was leaked on another forum that explains the difference

[USMC3531]

I didn't go back to see it this was answered before......But could you give the ATF a drawing of your application form using these kinds of parts? And after they OK your build do are you required to use the exact plans and parts or can you substitute some of the parts during construction?

Even parts from a premade solvent trap? What happens if it turned out you used all of the parts?

I don't know, there's speculation that if you say you are using parts from company's that only make solvent trap parts that they will try to go after those company's. Plumbing pipe isn't the best to use anyway because it has an internal seam to deal with.

[GunLawyer001]

Certain solvent traps.... or solvent traps that included internals.

It sounds like one ATF branch is sending poorly-completed mass mailings nationwide to everyone on certain customer lists, and that's not limited to what they bought, simply the fact that they bought something from a target company.

The letters I've seen discussed on the Web aren't even addressed to the recipients by name, they don't describe the purchases, they tell the recipients to surrender their unspecified purchases to their local ATF branch ( ) and they don't put anything in the blank for where the local ATF office is.

This is not a scalpel approach, it's a sledge hammer that catches more innocent than guilty, and spreads confusion, which is not what we pay them to do. Nor do we pay any law enforcement agency to entrap the unwary, by demanding that they submit photos of things that ATF now deems to be contraband.

The truth is that we live in such a regulated society that people reasonably believe that anything openly advertised and paid for using credit cards and delivered by the USPS or UPS, is in a different category than cocaine and bombs and machineguns.

It's why Pennsylvanians are at risk if they buy a stun gun at one of the thousands of retailers who sell them openly in PA, when they are specifically listed as prohibited offensive weapons, with a very iffy defense under a different statute.

[USMC3531]

Yep going after low hanging fruit.

[widgetman101]

The atf never liked the gg machine while they have made improvements to it who wants a 3 piece lower that bolts together? Yes you can buy equipment that will save you time because after setup you can walk away but requires you to learn it's capabilities/limitations. But this thread isn't about ar lowers but since you want to compare the 2.... but since it takes you atleast an hour with manual tools to finish a lower don't you think it's reasonable that it should take atleast as much time/effort to complete a silencer?

The GG is just an example of technology progressing, my point was how long will it before they develop similar technology to do suppressor's too? As for finishing previous suppressor builds I'd say the time is probably right around an hour too if you want to do it right. I'm sure you could do it faster but the biggest concern would be keeping everything concentric so you don't end up with a baffle strike. I haven't even got the point of trying to clip mine for additional sound loss, once I start that I'll probably have more time in it then finishing an AR lower.

Side note - I'm seeing a bunch of people posting approvals on the Form1 Facebook group, it seems a lot of them are posting either pictures of their Lathe's/Mills etc and generic plans. I'm still going to wait on more info before trying to re-submit my .22 JK since I messed the first one up. I saw that Elk County Ammo and Arms recently switched to the eFile Form 4 option, I might just go up and go that route since they're touting 90-day approvals which isn't a horrible wait time if it's true.