Reloading 45-70

[scruff]

I'm gearing up to reload 45-70 for a Springfield Trapdoor.

I've been told I should slug the barrel, not quite sure how to do that.

I'll probably want to start out with a 405 or 500 gr soft hollow-base bullet. Any idea where I could find such a thing? I see that Penn Bullets is local and they have a selection of 45-70, I'll give them a call tomorrow for advice.

Can't find brass, looks like I might have to buy some on Gunbroker at a premium price.

I suppose I'll eventually want to get into casting. That's another whole can of worms.

Any advice here on how to get started? Where to source components? Favorite recipes?

[DukeConnor]

"loading cartridges for the original 45-70 springfield" by J.S. Wolf is the bible for trapdoors. a lot of blackpowdee stuff but it is a great read. I shoot a lee 405 grain home cast bullet. Ducati Ron also has some nice cast bullets. His website recomends trailboss and his load data is great.

I use Unique or trailboss in my Pedersolli clone.

[DukeConnor]

As far as brass keep a eye on starlines website. it becomes available quite often.

[Noah_Zark]

Scruff:

Check your PMs.

Noah

[340M&P]

Factory stuff in my Encore Katahdin can be *brisk* so I started loading 45-70 lighter a while ago.
Brass was found in bulk from another forum (graybeardoutdoors) and lots of shooters and loaders there for advice.
Since I have a 12 lb keg of 700X, I searched for some lighter loads. 300 grain lead over a smidge of it goes about 1100 FPS, more accurate than I am with open sights and leaves my teeth intact. PM me if you want the recipe.
Trail boss is probably best for lead loads, some day I*ll get me some.

[cephas]

You'll get allot of good advice on what to do. How about some thoughts, just based on my experience, of not what to do.
Slugging a barrel is simple. Clean barrel, lube with light oil, and drive a soft lead slug through it. I use a brass rod as close to bore size as I can get to decrease the chance of scraping the barrel. A wooden dowel has a chance of breaking half way down the barrel. Don't ask me how I know. (add this after every thought)
To be accurate use a micrometer not a caliper for measuring.
Many older manuals list using a wad over a small charge of powder. Many have "rung" barrels this way, be careful.
The topic of wads and fillers is worthy of its own discussion.
Being a large case care must be taken with light charges of relatively fast powders. 10 grs. of Unique hides well in it.
Going all in at once, learning to cast, working up loads, tuning rifle, and time spent testing will be substantial, possibly frustrating.
When I went down the rabbit hole I should of started with a commercial cast bullet and just worked with the rifle and loads.

[knight0334]

Those old trapdoors can have varying bore/groove measurements, so slugging/measuring the bore is a good idea. The one we have on the farm has an oversized bore. You can hear jacketed .458" bullets rattle down the barrel, .459-.462" cast dont have that problem.

Fortunately, reloading blackpowder cartridges is pretty easy. With rifle, a brass drop tube is preferred - but you can do it without. I use a pre-measured 60, 65, 70 and 75 volumetric grain cups(depending on bullet size, bigger bullet = less powder room). 70-75 grains often fills up the case(sometimes overfills) if you don't use a drop tube, sometimes requiring some "pre-tampping" with a non-static tamp(brass, wood, plastic). Some manufacturer's BP seems to be more "clumpy"(lack of a better word) than others, holding more air pockets which need compressed out.

Avoid even the most mild smokeless loads in trapdoors. That action is weak, and the barrels are only BP rated. ...unless you have one of the newer H&R or Pedersolli trapdoors, which may be more friendly to mild smokeless loads. Original guns were from muzzle loading guns converted, then later(1870s-1880s) on dedicated receivers/barrels, all still BP rated steel.

[scruff]

Thanks for all of the advice and your PM's!

The rifle is still on its way. I've already received my Hornady dies, and the shell holder will come on Tuesday.

Thanks X Hunter for the tip on Moyer's Cast Bullets. I've got some 405gr and 500gr bullets on order.

Noah Zark was kind enough to sell me some brass. He's also giving me some thin sheets of dental wax. He puts a sheet of wax over the case and punches through with the bullet to create a disk of wax that acts as a gas check and also helps reduce leading. It's an interesting idea, and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

I'd really like to try hollow-base bullets, but the only ones I can find are a buck apiece at Midway. Not ready to make that splurge yet. Lee also has a hollow-base 405gr mold. I might consider casting my own someday, as much to give casting a try as to make bullets for this particular gun.

DucatiRon thinks that would be more trouble than it's worth, especially since I won't want to shoot the gun much after it near rips my arm off lol. At least it's the 32-1/2" infantry rifle, not the carbine, but that steel butt plate DOES look unforgiving. Ron has offered me the use of his melting pot if I want to give casting a try. It's nice having an expert nearby.

As for powder, Ron has offered me some Trail Boss. I think that's my best option to start with. Noah, Duke Conner and Cephas have also recommended Unique, which I have a little of. I was surprised to see online that numerous people use 2400 in their trapdoor loads. Apparently some older manuals listed it, including Lyman. I have a lifetime supply of 2400, but if I ever try that, I'll be very cautious.

I am going to start by slugging the barrel. I just found that I can pancake a 45 ACP bullet with an anvil and big hammer to expand it out past .459", so I have my slugs. I'm off to Lowes to buy a 3/8" x 36" aluminum rod to use as my ramrod.

I'm really looking forward to this. I think it's great that the Trapdoor is so similar to the 1861 musket. Same stock, trigger group, barrel, even the ramrod has been converted into a cleaning rod. That makes the gun that much more interesting to me, that aside from the trapdoor and firing pin, it's nearly identical to the Civil War infantry rifle. Very cool.

Anyway, thanks again for the help. Any other comments and advice will be greatly appreciated! I'll keep posting my progress.

[DukeConnor]

Thanks for all of the advice and your PM's!

The rifle is still on its way. I've already received my Hornady dies, and the shell holder will come on Tuesday.

Thanks X Hunter for the tip on Moyer's Cast Bullets. I've got some 405gr and 500gr bullets on order.

Noah Zark was kind enough to sell me some brass. He's also giving me some thin sheets of dental wax. He puts a sheet of wax over the case and punches through with the bullet to create a disk of wax that acts as a gas check and also helps reduce leading. It's an interesting idea, and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

I'd really like to try hollow-base bullets, but the only ones I can find are a buck apiece at Midway. Not ready to make that splurge yet. Lee also has a hollow-base 405gr mold. I might consider casting my own someday, as much to give casting a try as to make bullets for this particular gun.

DucatiRon thinks that would be more trouble than it's worth, especially since I won't want to shoot the gun much after it near rips my arm off lol. At least it's the 32-1/2" infantry rifle, not the carbine, but that steel butt plate DOES look unforgiving. Ron has offered me the use of his melting pot if I want to give casting a try. It's nice having an expert nearby.

As for powder, Ron has offered me some Trail Boss. I think that's my best option to start with. Noah, Duke Conner and Cephas have also recommended Unique, which I have a little of. I was surprised to see online that numerous people use 2400 in their trapdoor loads. Apparently some older manuals listed it, including Lyman. I have a lifetime supply of 2400, but if I ever try that, I'll be very cautious.

I am going to start by slugging the barrel. I just found that I can pancake a 45 ACP bullet with an anvil and big hammer to expand it out past .459", so I have my slugs. I'm off to Lowes to buy a 3/8" x 36" aluminum rod to use as my ramrod.

I'm really looking forward to this. I think it's great that the Trapdoor is so similar to the 1861 musket. Same stock, trigger group, barrel, even the ramrod has been converted into a cleaning rod. That makes the gun that much more interesting to me, that aside from the trapdoor and firing pin, it's nearly identical to the Civil War infantry rifle. Very cool.

Anyway, thanks again for the help. Any other comments and advice will be greatly appreciated! I'll keep posting my progress.

It's identical because they took springfield muzzle loaders and converted them to breach loaders.

[scruff]

I shot the Trapdoor for the first time today. I did use a bench rest and a paracord trigger pull for the first shot of each test round, lol.

I loaded 5 rounds each of 3 recipes last night with the Moyer's 405gr bullets. Noah's dental wax "gas checks" were very easy to do. It'll be worth that little bit of effort if it reduces leading.

The 12 gr Trail Boss rounds were very soft-shooting at 971 fps. 12 gr of Unique was a little hotter at 1059 fps. An old Lyman manual listed 2400. Those rounds were 1320 fps. More fun to shoot, but I'll be sticking with the Trail Boss for now.

The gun has a strong ejector. It's fun to flip open the trapdoor. I've never shot anything like it. I need an ammo pouch. I wonder how they carried their ammo?

It's very cool owning a working 140-yr old rifle. Im sure this will be a hit at the group shoots.