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February 4th, 2022, 07:40 PM #11
Re: MAC 10 with Bower Suppressor Purchase
Good question, with FedEx not accepting firearms shipments from non-FFLs that leaves UPS or some other "commercial" carrier. If the NFA item was Form 4'd to the out of state SOT, the owner would have the approved Form 4 to go with it saying it was now owned by the receiving SOT so I don't see why it couldn't be given (for lack of a better word) to a FFL/SOT to have them ship it. The item is not being transferred to the shipping FFL/SOT, they are just being used as the "shipper".
I will however, pose this question on another forum where there are some BIG NFA business SOTS that might be able to answer.Last edited by Xringshooter; February 4th, 2022 at 07:52 PM.
Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member
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February 4th, 2022, 10:45 PM #12
Re: MAC 10 with Bower Suppressor Purchase
In America arms are free merchandise such that anyone who has the capital may make their houses into armories and their gardens into parks of artillery. - Ira Allen, 1796
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February 5th, 2022, 06:30 AM #13Member
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Re: MAC 10 with Bower Suppressor Purchase
That sounds like what he was talking about. He specifically told me this “ Good afternoon. After multiple calls to the ATF and I spoke to Ed’s yesterday, paperwork is complete and out for signature!
Owner is going to do 2 Form 4s to my company (one for gun and one for silencer) and I will then immediately do a Form 3 transfer (SOT dealer to SOT dealer) to Ed’s who will then get with you for the final Form 4s from them to you.
It’s cumbersome, but necessary given a transfer over state lines.
Thank you very much for your patience!
I will copy you with the Form 4 on this end once submitted! Should be early next week!”
Does it make sense?
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February 5th, 2022, 06:32 AM #14Member
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February 5th, 2022, 12:27 PM #15
Re: MAC 10 with Bower Suppressor Purchase
The answers from SOT's that do a lot of NFA/Title II work and know the regs pretty much inside out, is that a non-FFL/SOT can ship a NFA item to a FFL/SOT just like they can ship a Title I firearm (handgun, long guns), as long as they go by the shippers rules. They also said that giving a firearm to a FFL to ship for them, be it a NFA item or not, does not constitute a transfer as the FFL is just acting as a shipper, so no NFA paperwork is required.
Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member
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February 8th, 2022, 10:28 AM #16
Re: MAC 10 with Bower Suppressor Purchase
Capitol Armory website has a nice write-up about buying machine guns: https://www.capitolarmory.com/blog/b...chine-gun.html
Basically your seller did an extra step of transferring the MG to his local FFL/SOT, but that additional step is only going to slow down the entire process by a week because the transfer time between the sellers FFL and your FFL is only 3 or 4 days (tax-free Form 3 transfer). This is why transferable MG's on a "Form 3" typically bring more money because it reduces the time for the buyer to get the MG by about 4 to 6 months.Washington County Machine Guns & Tactical Range -- CMP Affiliated Club -- FFL 07 / FFL 10 / FEL 20 / SOT 02 / ITAR
Largest MG Rental Business on the entire East Coast. M2HB, M9 Flamethrower, M67 Grenades, M240 Bravo, M249 SAW, M1919, RPD, M60, Bowling Ball Mortar.
Now offering High-Explosive Classes (Open to the Public)
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February 8th, 2022, 08:00 PM #17Member
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Re: MAC 10 with Bower Suppressor Purchase
That is good to know. I also heard the transfer times between two FFLs was short as in 30 days or so but I could not get an actual number. The seller did tell me it would add more time for two transfers but I said what the hell I already have to wait 9 months why not wait 18 months
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February 9th, 2022, 12:53 AM #18Super Member
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Re: MAC 10 with Bower Suppressor Purchase
Just for clarification, the only two options would have been:
Option A:
1. Seller -> His FFL (Florida)
Form 4, $200 tax paid, ~9 months2. His FFL -> Your FFL (PA)
Form 3, tax free, ~3 to 30 days3. Your FFL -> You
Form 4, $200 tax paid, ~9 months
Total time: 18-19 months (average)
or
Option B:
1. Seller -> Your FFL (PA)
Form 4, $200 tax paid, ~9 months2. Your FFL -> You
Form 4, $200 tax paid, ~9 months
Total time: 18 months (average)
So the only "extra" transfer you could have potentially eliminated was the Form 3 which processes comparatively quickly.
Also, these timelines are based on paper Form 4s. No clue what timeline will actually look like if submitted via eForms.There are never any guarantees. I've seen 2-hop transfers take 3 years to complete before.
Good luck! Start piling up ammo while you wait!I am not a lawyer.
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February 9th, 2022, 09:45 AM #19
Re: MAC 10 with Bower Suppressor Purchase
Transfers between FFL's are typically 3 to 4 days. Realistically you are looking at around 15 months. Transfers from a civilian to an FFL/SOT typically takes about 4 to 6 months, then FFL/SOT to FFL/SOT is 4 days, then your FFL/SOT to you is 9+ months, so yeah, about 15 months give or take a month. Now that's a paper Form 4, we have no clue how the new eForm 4 system is going to pan out.
That's why when someone calls us about buying an NFA item, we recommend they only purchase the item if it's "Currently on a Form 3" unless they don't mind an additional 4 to 7 month wait on top of their Form 4 wait period.Washington County Machine Guns & Tactical Range -- CMP Affiliated Club -- FFL 07 / FFL 10 / FEL 20 / SOT 02 / ITAR
Largest MG Rental Business on the entire East Coast. M2HB, M9 Flamethrower, M67 Grenades, M240 Bravo, M249 SAW, M1919, RPD, M60, Bowling Ball Mortar.
Now offering High-Explosive Classes (Open to the Public)
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February 10th, 2022, 12:11 AM #20Member
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Re: MAC 10 with Bower Suppressor Purchase
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