Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Question Re: Firearms Inheritance and Transfer Requirements

    With these interstate bequest/intestate succession transfers - 3 sets of laws have to be obeyed.

    The starting state(PA in this case), federal, and the receiving state(AZ in this case).

    PA and federal aren't a problem with such things, but the state in which the firearm(s) are to go to may. ...which I doubt with Arizona.

    Example issue:

    1. An "Assault Weapon" as defined by an anti-gun state, likely wont be allowed to be transferred to an anti-gun state.
    2. In some states, a handgun would need to be transferred/registered, or have a possession permit to receive it(and abide by mag restrictions if a factor).

    States like HI, CA, IL, NJ, NY, MA, CT, RI are certainly problematic. MI requires handgun registration. ...there may be more.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  2. #12
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Question Re: Firearms Inheritance and Transfer Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

    18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts

    (a) It shall be unlawful*
    (1) for any person*
    (A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or
    (B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce;
    (2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that*
    (A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;
    (B) this paragraph shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer from depositing a firearm for conveyance in the mails to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who, pursuant to the provisions of section 1715 of this title, is eligible to receive through the mails pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person, for use in connection with his official duty; and
    (C) nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as applying in any manner in the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States differently than it would apply if the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the possession were in fact a State of the United States;
    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
    (4) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, to transport in interstate or foreign commerce any destructive device, machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986), short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, except as specifically authorized by the Attorney General consistent with public safety and necessity;
    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
    (6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;
    (7) for any person to manufacture or import armor piercing ammunition, unless*
    (A) the manufacture of such ammunition is for the use of the United States, any department or agency of the United States, any State, or any department, agency, or political subdivision of a State;
    (B) the manufacture of such ammunition is for the purpose of exportation; or
    (C) the manufacture or importation of such ammunition is for the purpose of testing or experimentation and has been authorized by the Attorney General;
    (8) for any manufacturer or importer to sell or deliver armor piercing ammunition, unless such sale or delivery*
    (A) is for the use of the United States, any department or agency of the United States, any State, or any department, agency, or political subdivision of a State;
    (B) is for the purpose of exportation; or
    (C) is for the purpose of testing or experimentation and has been authorized by the Attorney General;*[1]
    (9) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, who does not reside in any State to receive any firearms unless such receipt is for lawful sporting purposes.



    There is more at the link.. just too much to quote and search through.
    ========

    As a side note: USPS and all commercial carriers will not ship a gun unless coming or going to a FFL. So a FFL will be involved, which in turn involves 4473 forms. The only way around this is for personal delivery or pickup.
    But if the OP is operating under the FFL license there may be another issue:

    18 USC 922(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver-

    ...

    (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
    As you indicated, short of direct delivery to or pickup by the heir, an FFL on the recipient end seems the only practical means to effect the transfer. For longarms, direct pickup by the heir from the OP w/4473 would be legal but not for handguns. Direct pickup from the estate executor for any firearms w/o any FFLs would be legal assuming heir not otherwise prohibited.
    Last edited by tl_3237; January 27th, 2022 at 08:02 PM.
    IANAL

  3. #13
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Question Re: Firearms Inheritance and Transfer Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by tl_3237 View Post
    But if the OP is operating under the FFL license there may be another issue:



    As you indicated, short of direct delivery to or pickup by the heir, an FFL on the recipient end seems the only practical means to effect the transfer. For longarms, direct pickup by the heir from the OP w/4473 would be legal but not for handguns. Direct pickup from the estate executor for any firearms w/o any FFLs would be legal assuming heir not otherwise prohibited.
    I agree.

    Once an FFL gets involved, it is best to assume a 4473 will be needed for anything that gets put into their bound book. I wouldn't fault any FFL to require a 4473 for any reason(unless the recipient is already a FFL holder).

    The OP has two real options:
    1. Ship to another FFL in AZ, then that AZ FFL do the transfer, or
    2. Have heir come to PA to pickup the guns directly from the estate, or the executor/executrix personally deliver the guns to the heir in AZ.

    With the OP being an FFL, it may appear that the guns are already logged. ....paperwork + handguns & other firearms only being able to be transferred to heir from a FFL in the heir's homestate(AZ). Rifles and shotguns allowed to be transferred to heir directly from PA FFL.

    ----------

    We are in the process of this too with my dad's guns(to go to me). A Florida FFL(local to mom) wanted thousands of $$$$ to ship all of them to a FFL here in PA. She confirmed with a lawyer in FL of the legalities there(not a problem), and I'm aware of them here. Since mom is the executrix of dad's estate, on either her next trip up or my next trip down, I'll take ownership directly.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Hanover, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
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    Default Re: Question Re: Firearms Inheritance and Transfer Requirements

    Everyone on this thread - Thank you very much for the comments and information. This has been a big help to me. I am new FFL-01, mostly handling gunsmithing and used gun sales. This estate transfer is a new scenario for me; even my ATF mentor was unclear regarding the correct process / procedure.

    My goal is protect the estate and I am pushing the inheritor to handle this FFL-to-FFL or come get the firearms in person. The inheritor is not a family member and is simply someone unknown to the family named in the deceased's Will.

    The inheritor is protesting that I want to go FFL-to-FFL due to the shipping and processing costs. I will keep you all posted how this turns out.

    Thanks again for the help and advice.

  5. #15
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Question Re: Firearms Inheritance and Transfer Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by jmiles1960 View Post
    Everyone on this thread - Thank you very much for the comments and information. This has been a big help to me. I am new FFL-01, mostly handling gunsmithing and used gun sales. This estate transfer is a new scenario for me; even my ATF mentor was unclear regarding the correct process / procedure.

    My goal is protect the estate and I am pushing the inheritor to handle this FFL-to-FFL or come get the firearms in person. The inheritor is not a family member and is simply someone unknown to the family named in the deceased's Will.

    The inheritor is protesting that I want to go FFL-to-FFL due to the shipping and processing costs. I will keep you all posted how this turns out.

    Thanks again for the help and advice.
    Then the inheritor needs to get his ass to pa and take possession. Either that or find an AZ FFL that is willing to work with him on the transfer cost. Not really your problem from what I see. I get it, depending on the amount of firearms, that it might be costly for him. Same as paying inheritance tax on them from what I see. Nobody likes it, but it's the reality.

    Side note, this is why you give away your stuff before you kick the bucket. I know personally, unless I die from some unforseen reason, I plan on giving away most of my guns before this would become an issue and I've discussed the same with my wife.

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