Gun Show Feedback/Suggestions

[Emptymag]

Where would I go to buy guns if gun shows ended?

Oh my! Whatever would I do???

Maybe the same place I've been buying them since I got back into guns around 2000/2005?
(anywhere BUT a gun show)
I've purchase ONE gun AT a gun show. I bought it from a dealer who is actually local to me.
I paid a few dollars more than another vendor wanted for the same thing because he was someone I wanted to support.

Other than that, I've bought a few at that same gun shop, but it's been 20+ years now.
All other guns have come from the classifieds here, and 3 from Dunhams.


Also, nobody "bitching" about pricing thinks that they should get an AK47 for $350 (or milk for a nickel) - they just don't want to pay $350 MORE for one at a gun show than they could buy one elsewhere.

[rkrcpa]

My observations over 55+ years of attending gun shows:


Everything changes . . .

Noah

What he said.....

I remember driving clear across the state to spend the weekend at the Monroeville show because it took two days to see everything. Those shows were the best because the only other alternative was the ads in Shotgun News for Sarco or Numrich Arms (Gun Parts Corp to you kids) and the like. The best shows on this side of the state couldn't compare but at least you could still find things the shops didn't have. Now we have the internet and can buy anything we want and have it tomorrow. That's hard to compete with.

At this point, my favorite show is the Forks of the Delaware show. Not a lot of crap, old stuff that interests me and dealers I've been seeing for four decades. A good way to waste a few hours and still cheaper than going to the movies.

[R L Suehr]

Where would I go to buy guns if gun shows ended?

Oh my! Whatever would I do???

Maybe the same place I've been buying them since I got back into guns around 2000/2005?
(anywhere BUT a gun show)
I've purchase ONE gun AT a gun show. I bought it from a dealer who is actually local to me.
I paid a few dollars more than another vendor wanted for the same thing because he was someone I wanted to support.

Other than that, I've bought a few at that same gun shop, but it's been 20+ years now.
All other guns have come from the classifieds here, and 3 from Dunhams.


Also, nobody "bitching" about pricing thinks that they should get an AK47 for $350 (or milk for a nickel) - they just don't want to pay $350 MORE for one at a gun show than they could buy one elsewhere.

Yeah, I think the point is being missed. I don't think anyone is complaining about the price of guns going up in general, that happens. It's that there's a premium on them at the gun shows. Not saying the op is doing that, but it is a general thing I've seen. Really simple if the going rate for said AK is 750, I don't expect to pay 500. I also don't expect to pay 850 at the show either, because reasons.

I'll give an example from a while ago. I was looking at getting a 629 3" that was a limited run. Bud's wanted $725 of so. My LGS quoted me $770. Pretty even when you compare shipping/Transfer. So, my preferred route would be to buy from my lgs. I saw the same gun at a gun show, used for $850. I asked if he could do better, nope wouldn't budge. Now either he A: way overpaid for that and didn't research what it sold for at all or B: was trying to see if any suckers would bite because it's a show. I don't know, but I wasn't going to pay more for a used one than I could get it new from my LGS. If he would have said $650-700 I would have bought it on the spot. I see this way too often at shows anymore and it's ridiculous in the age of being able to research your purchase easily and instantly. Dealers like that are ruining it for the guys that actually do have decent prices and there's still some around. That's the reason I continue to go to shows and usually see/deal with the same dealers at said shows.

[Spaceballs]

Also, nobody "bitching" about pricing thinks that they should get an AK47 for $350 (or milk for a nickel) - they just don't want to pay $350 MORE for one at a gun show than they could buy one elsewhere.

This guy gets it.

[Spaceballs]

I just dont even know what to say here. taking business advice from someone not in the business and who has never sold a gun in his life is suicide. I appreciate you being cheap. live with that. it wont get you far or what you want in life. the typical consumer knows that which is why gunbroker is thriving. it surely isnt filled with cheap skates only wanting to bid $500 on a specific gun. if the typical consumer was that way, the market price would be set at $500 and not $750. you seem to have a backwards view on business.

Yeah the multiple businesses I have helped to turn profitable in various fields over the years has no applicability to the gun industry whatsoever....

One thing I know about business is that people make the same common mistakes in every single line of business. The baker, the gun store owner, the Chinese take out place, the hardware store..... they are buy wholesale and sell retail. It's not a complicated set up. And they are all prone to the exact same mistakes. And the number one mistake is not evolving with the market and trying to force yesterday's market on tomorrow's consumer.

You aren't listening to a word anyone is saying. I never it he'd about high prices. it one time. I said what I was willing to pay. You explain why you couldn't sell at that price. And I REPEATEDLY said "Okay. That's cool. It's not for me." That's not bitching.

I also never said I wouldn't go to fun shows. Nor did I said I wanted anything at 60% of market value. You think that because you aren't listening.

You came in here complaining about gun shows. You have multiple replies explaining the consumer viewpoint. And you are dismissive of everyone single one.

You have this attitude that any ideas you aren't already using are totally stupid but the ideas you are already using lead you here to complain about how you aren't selling enough guns.

There were 5 million first time gun buys last year. If you aren't selling out your inventory, maybe the consumers aren't the problem.

You didn't come here looking for new thoughts. You came here hoping to hear your thoughts said by other people to justify to yourself that you aren't doing anything wrong.

And now you get insulting when you aren't getting what you want. The same for your view on gun show consumers. They aren't buying the way you want them to so you are mad at them, not your business model.

I have seen soml many small business owners fail BECAUSE of this attitude.

I'm not a cheapskate by any stretch of the imagination.

My entire AK scenario was an example. You can't sell me one for $500. That is all an AK is worth TO ME. So I don't buy one.

If that opinion reflects the bulk of consumers, then the guns are priced to high for the market in which they are being sold.

If most people disagree with me, then AK-47's should be flying off the shelves.

How many AK-47's priced higher than $500 do you currently have unsold in your inventory?

[JoshIronshaft]

Gun shows wont end. They will just continue to shrink. Like flea markets.

If they did end, local gun shops would still have plenty of competition. Between other small stores and big box stores and the internet (new and used). I highly doubt they currently consider their main competition to be the gun show. Hell I dont think most gun stores care about their competition anyway as it is. The price things accordingly to make money and hope for the low information buyer, of which there are still plenty.

[Marines55]

honestly guys, none of us can control what prices dealers put on guns. I mark my stuff fair, usually a bit below gunbroker because if I were to sell there I would pay fees. so I discount the gun those exact fees and sell local. I honestly understand everyone looking fr the best price, I do it too and always have. BUT I will tell you that there are some guys at shows who think dealers make millions of dollars. we dont. there are guys who want a $1000 rifle for $500....thats not going to happen. I am honest, and I dont cheat anyone on what I buy or sell. maybe im in the minority as well, or maybe im the way it should be but currently is not.

If however, you took offense to the term cheap skate, then you more than likely are one. the market doesn't revolve around or is set by cheap skates as they are not the norm. they are the low selling price on gunbroker. the guy who overpays is the high selling price on gunbroker. the norm, is everyone in between. so let me be honest here. I have had some great people purchase from me and have earned MANY repeat customers from non local shows. I take my time to answer questions and provide customer service to people at shows knowing well in advance, they are just looking. 90% of the time it leads to a sale. sometimes it doesn't. We sell to first time gun owners, ladies, novice and veteran alike. I dont have a problem selling. im just looking for feedback to make it better. yes, you guys are complaining of high prices....just dont go to that dealer. I can say without a doubt that not all dealers are over priced, though we seem to be lumped in with those that are judging by some of the posts on this thread. maybe thats what I take offense too.

all in all, I dont expect my customers to pay more than retail for anything at all. I wouldn't do it so neither should the guy driving to the show and paying to get in. incentives aside, no I will not give away something for free. I dot owe you anything other than a square deal we can both be happy with and some technical support before and after the sale. thats customer service you dont get with Buds and PSA.

I dont think people are bitching about paying $350 for an AK either. BUT if the market is $750 fr an AK, then you need to wake up a little and see that price change. its odd being a gun dealer. I like it, but its the only job I ever had that I owe someone something before they even pick up a gun. its the only job where the customer beats the piss out of you on price and then thinks they did you a favor. like I said, there is a very specific demographic that always wants money off, and I honestly dont see them being at shows much longer anyway. there is also a very specific demographic that buys at MSRP. those are repeat customers we have earned.

[Marines55]

Yeah the multiple businesses I have helped to turn profitable in various fields over the years has no applicability to the gun industry whatsoever....

One thing I know about business is that people make the same common mistakes in every single line of business. The baker, the gun store owner, the Chinese take out place, the hardware store..... they are buy wholesale and sell retail. It's not a complicated set up. And they are all prone to the exact same mistakes. And the number one mistake is not evolving with the market and trying to force yesterday's market on tomorrow's consumer.

You aren't listening to a word anyone is saying. I never it he'd about high prices. it one time. I said what I was willing to pay. You explain why you couldn't sell at that price. And I REPEATEDLY said "Okay. That's cool. It's not for me." That's not bitching.

I also never said I wouldn't go to fun shows. Nor did I said I wanted anything at 60% of market value. You think that because you aren't listening.

You came in here complaining about gun shows. You have multiple replies explaining the consumer viewpoint. And you are dismissive of everyone single one.

You have this attitude that any ideas you aren't already using are totally stupid but the ideas you are already using lead you here to complain about how you aren't selling enough guns.

There were 5 million first time gun buys last year. If you aren't selling out your inventory, maybe the consumers aren't the problem.

You didn't come here looking for new thoughts. You came here hoping to hear your thoughts said by other people to justify to yourself that you aren't doing anything wrong.

And now you get insulting when you aren't getting what you want. The same for your view on gun show consumers. They aren't buying the way you want them to so you are mad at them, not your business model.

I have seen soml many small business owners fail BECAUSE of this attitude.

I'm not a cheapskate by any stretch of the imagination.

My entire AK scenario was an example. You can't sell me one for $500. That is all an AK is worth TO ME. So I don't buy one.

If that opinion reflects the bulk of consumers, then the guns are priced to high for the market in which they are being sold.

If most people disagree with me, then AK-47's should be flying off the shelves.

How many AK-47's priced higher than $500 do you currently have unsold in your inventory?

wow, you sound really angry! sorry to have ruined your day with some input. sorry you cant afford the modern pricing of firearms and that you cant see it wont change just for you. im not angry at all, im not losing sales either. I didn't come here to complain about cheap skates because I cant change their way of thinking. those aren't my customers anyway and they surely are not the typical buyer. I honestly feel a bit sad for you, because one day you will have to sell a gun. you will then probably bitch about cheap skates. BUT im sure we can all agree that you wont be selling your guns 10 years from now for the exact same price you paid for them because some guy doesn't want to pay you full price. like I said, you seem really angry, you seem really out of touch, and im sorry your suggestions aren't feasible. but with your sound advice a gun shop could go bankrupt in weeks. obviously you aren't paying anything extra to a shop that sinks money into doing all of that free stuff for people so who will pay for all of that?

[Noah_Zark]

. . . My entire AK scenario was an example. You can't sell me one for $500. That is all an AK is worth TO ME. So I don't buy one.

If that opinion reflects the bulk of consumers, then the guns are priced to high for the market in which they are being sold.

If most people disagree with me, then AK-47's should be flying off the shelves.

How many AK-47's priced higher than $500 do you currently have unsold in your inventory?

I take your point, Spaceballs. There are specific firearms that are currently priced higher than their relative traditional prices, even accounting for inflation. For example, a used Marlin "JM" North Haven made 336 in 30-30, nothing special, sits in a rack at a semi-local funshop priced at $799. It's not worth that to me. Heck, I don't think I'd pay $400 for one; I have some Marlin 30-30s that are more interesting (16" Marauder, 16" Texan, 18" Texan, 20" Texan, 20" octagonal cowboy, 24" octagonal cowboy). It's not worth $400 to me let alone $800.

But using your AK example (again, I understand what you're saying), most of the shops that I frequent that normally have AKs, don't right now. Those few shops that do have AKs have Century VSKAs or some such combinations of letters for this year, or a leftover Riley. And yes, for $799. But the point is, THE DEALERS ARE SELLING THEM AT THAT PRICE POINT, so the market is apparently accepting of the price point. Flying off the shelves? Not exactly, because the few that are on shelves at the few dealers are only there because those dealers are fairly big and move a lot of product, and have special relationships with their distributors. One of them is Elk County Ammo and Arms, in Saint Marys, PA. "ammo-arms" on Gunbroker, a GB "Top 10 Seller," and as I understand it, the #1 GB seller in 2021. A retailer like that can get product that a mom and pop basement shop or weekend gun show FFL can't, and they always have AKs because they get frequent shipments. No connection to them, but I'm using them as an example.

Two other examples, the local Dunhams are off-and-on with AKs in the racks. The store managers say that if they get a half-dozen AKs in, they are gone in 2-3 weeks, sometimes sooner. So depending on when one is in the store, they may or may not have AK stock.

Again, I get your point, but the objective evidence at least in these parts is that AKs are still selling well despite the $799 price point. The fact that customers are buying them is objective evidence that the $700 price point.

FWIW, would I buy one at $799? Certainly not, but I have a few already I bought years ago. And even if I didn't have one, I would not spend $799 on one now.

Noah

[Ronin]

I take your point, Spaceballs. There are specific firearms that are currently priced higher than their relative traditional prices, even accounting for inflation. For example, a used Marlin "JM" North Haven made 336 in 30-30, nothing special, sits in a rack at a semi-local funshop priced at $799. It's not worth that to me. Heck, I don't think I'd pay $400 for one; I have some Marlin 30-30s that are more interesting (16" Marauder, 16" Texan, 18" Texan, 20" Texan, 20" octagonal cowboy, 24" octagonal cowboy). It's not worth $400 to me let alone $800.

But using your AK example (again, I understand what you're saying), most of the shops that I frequent that normally have AKs, don't right now. Those few shops that do have AKs have Century VSKAs or some such combinations of letters for this year, or a leftover Riley. And yes, for $799. But the point is, THE DEALERS ARE SELLING THEM AT THAT PRICE POINT, so the market is apparently accepting of the price point. Flying off the shelves? Not exactly, because the few that are on shelves at the few dealers are only there because those dealers are fairly big and move a lot of product, and have special relationships with their distributors. One of them is Elk County Ammo and Arms, in Saint Marys, PA. "ammo-arms" on Gunbroker, a GB "Top 10 Seller," and as I understand it, the #1 GB seller in 2021. A retailer like that can get product that a mom and pop basement shop or weekend gun show FFL can't, and they always have AKs because they get frequent shipments. No connection to them, but I'm using them as an example.

Two other examples, the local Dunhams are off-and-on with AKs in the racks. The store managers say that if they get a half-dozen AKs in, they are gone in 2-3 weeks, sometimes sooner. So depending on when one is in the store, they may or may not have AK stock.

Again, I get your point, but the objective evidence at least in these parts is that AKs are still selling well despite the $799 price point. The fact that customers are buying them is objective evidence that the $700 price point.

FWIW, would I buy one at $799? Certainly not, but I have a few already I bought years ago. And even if I didn't have one, I would not spend $799 on one now.

Noah

A JM Marlin 30-30 has been on my list for years, but I didn't start getting serious about buying one until the last few. Seems as though people are holding on to them. And the ones that aren't are asking a lot more than they were going for five or six years ago. I'm OK with paying more because things go up in value, but when prices are double what they were a few years ago, and there's no panic buying for that model, then I move on to the next thing.