Need help understanding "Great Bodily Injury", et. al.

[Daycrawler]

2Xtap

[kis312]

where they believe that your ability to own guns at all is a loophole that they want to close.

That is a stunningly eye-opening way to look at it.

Thank you to all who responded. The message is clear that I should and could have done things differently- calling the police, driving away from him/trying to lose him, and not even getting out of the car.

Considering that I had the kids in the car, once I was outside the car I felt like I could not retreat. And since I had just shown this guy that I had a weapon, I felt like my only option being to reholster it and try to fight him off hands-only was just insane-- hence my post here. But I think I get it now- that since he was unarmed this is a grey area where I likely would have been charged and they'd "let a jury sort it out".

I will also recommend some type of carry insurance. I use U.S. Law Shield.

A few days after this happened- the same day I signed up for the class- I signed up with CCWSafe. I really never thought this would happen to me.

[JoshIronshaft]

So, hindsight debate aside, the real question you have is a good one.

How do I know the exact moment I can use lethal force to defend myself?

I don't think this question has a simple answer. Even given all the detail your situation presents here. There is a 4 point check list, but even that doesn't present a clear answer. The 4 points are explained here, better than I can explain them: https://www.useofforce.us/3aojp/

Every situation is unique, and will be judged as such. Anything could be a factor, from what you're wearing to the time of day and location. Every decision by both parties can be scrutinized.

In my opinion, the answer is use your instinct. Trust your gut. That is an evolved survival tool that is a long time in the making. When it's time to use deadly force, you will know.

You're doing the right thing by taking classes, researching, learning from your experience, and probably going through scenarios over and over in your head. This will let you process things better as they happen if there is a next time, but I still think it will come down to your instinct.

I've taken a few concealed carry classes and the best one I've taken is the class taught by Tom Givens, owner of Rangemaster Training. He spent a lifetime professionally investigating police and civilian deadly use of force and another lifetime teaching people how to carry and shoot. I can't say enough about his class.

https://rangemaster.com/

Here are my thoughts on this specific situation with the information you provided.

If you have made it clear to the attacker that you have a firearm and you are willing to use it, and he continues to advance, then that is telling me that he intends to do you serious bodily harm. Probably using your own gun which he thinks he can take from you. Once he is hands on and striking you, going for your gun, and you can no loner retreat without exposing your family to this attack, then that is probably the moment. At that moment, you are face to face, hands on. I think everything would be pretty clear to you at that moment, if things had gone that far.

Have you ever practiced shooting from retention? Have you ever practiced shooting with your gun to your side slightly, down at your hip, with your other hand up to guard your face? I recently started practicing that and there is a technique to it that requires practice. Keep in mind you need a tall back stop in case you shoot high at first.

[markshere2]

All of the above is great counsel.

search on tueller drill
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=tueller+drill&t=opera&ia=web

Learn about how close they have to be before they become a real danger.

It's real.

I got bit because I was not ready when the neighbor's dog attacked me.

[Daycrawler]

I got bit because I was not ready when the neighbor's dog attacked me.

S0me Cop you are

[ar15jules]

Title 18 2602 Definitions

"Serious bodily injury." Bodily injury which creates a substantial risk of death or which causes serious, permanent disfigurement or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ.

[lager1829]

Read The Law of Self Defense Principals book by Attorney Andrew Branca. It's free from his website, you pay shipping. Some on here ordered it and complained about getting spammed. I didn't have the issue but my gmail account seems to be good at filtering out spam. Anyway, the book is very informative about use of force and how to avoid getting prosecuted for same. He's one of the attorneys frequently on the Rekieta Law YouTube live trial coverage. In addition, I recall he recommended CCWSafe.

[icp4life162005]

Title 18 2602 Definitions

"Serious bodily injury." Bodily injury which creates a substantial risk of death or which causes serious, permanent disfigurement or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ.

Ie: a broken bone.

[fallenleader]

i read the entire OP post and have little to comment.

what I will say is the local PD may not have any officers at it. it is common in small areas for only some detectives or office staff to be on hand if not just office staff as the entire shift is out on patrol.
i routinely hear calls for an officer to GO TO the office to handle someone who came there. to turn themselves in or report an incident, etc.

PSP barracks are likely different, larger staff. court houses always have deputies in my experience.
hasn't completely deterred people from firing at officers or executing parties involved in a trial in front of the building.

so TLDR, i would recommend staying on the 911 line and keep moving.
people dial 911 for the stupidest shit like a neighbors dog barking, fireworks, for a tow or taxi ride. or it dials itself and they cant be bothered to speak with the operator when they call back, simply hanging up on them.

never feel that an emergency isn't worthy of dialing it.

[James PA]

Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.
Especially if it was my children's safety on the line.

The 'take the beating' is liberal cuck mentality. Don't fall for the psychological trap.

How many people have died from the knockout game?
Fists are deadly weapons.

Thank you for sharing.

Glad we got right into politics. Know what to say when he comes towards you, and always shoot before they have the chance to get your gun. (From a sudden liberal")